Milli Hill: I will not be silenced

[TheFleegleHasLanded]

I love Milli Hill’s work and know many other women on here do too. Check out her latest blog:

“But too many women have been silenced, and I don’t want to join them. There are conversations about women’s rights, women’s bodies, and the words we use to talk about women’s issues, which need to be had, but which have been made taboo in our current culture. And this is not healthy. Worse still, women like me have been used as an example to others of what happens to you if you raise questions. And others have seen these public draggings, and decided to keep quiet themselves. This kind of behaviour, in which dissidents are made a public example of in order to ensure compliance to dogma, does not have very good historical precedents. And yet it currently describes itself as ‘the right side of history’.”

www.millihill.co.uk/2021/07/10/i-will-not-be-silenced/

A lot of charities and organisations do vital work. That isn't a free pass to do anything they like without censure.

What exactly have they done? Said they don't want to work with milli any more. So?That's their prerogative.

She isn't complaining about Birthrights using "women and birthing people". They jumped on a bandwagon, and made false statements about her, saying she didn't think trans people could ever suffer obstetric violence. She didn't say that when she said obstetric violence is violence against women, because she doesn't share the beliefs that genderists do that "men" can give birth, and it's a nasty construction to make.

What exactly have they done?

Have you actually listened to a word that's been said here? Please read the thread.

And read what Milli has tweeted:

twitter.com/millihill/status/1414925624729391105?s=20

As a human rights charity, Birthrights believes that taking an inclusive approach which respects pregnant non-binary and trans people does not diminish women’s rights. We want everyone to feel welcome and safe in the birth movement and will continue to speak about both women and birthing people in our work.

Sounds fair to me.

I have read the thread.

Riiight. A charity which is part of an orchestrated pile on towards a woman for stating her concerns about de-centring women in in obstetric care. A woman with a credible history of supporting women in pregnancy and childbirth. Because only those with a female reproductive system face obstetric violence, and obscuring that will hurt all women, including the women who are comfortable enough with their female reproductive system to use it, but not to use the language that accurately describes it.

And gosh, they use the word women as well as obscuring that reality. Well done them. They also bully other women whom I can only assume they perceive as rivals in the field. I'm not battling them. I'm standing with a woman who has been treated shamefully. You stand with the bullies if you want. I know how vital woman-centred obstetric care is, and how hard it has been to shift the system towards it, and I don't support a charity that seeks to undermine that, however naively unintentional they may be.

This. I'm not engaging with the disingenuousness here.

“And theyre entitled to work with people who they feel will support their mission and the way they choose to work and not put off traumatized transmen and non binary people.”

Yes and we’re entitled to criticise them and the gender identity movement they promote which many of us believe to be directly harmful to women and children.

Yeah that's cool. Buy what do you say to the non binary person who has been abused in childbirth? Sorry we won't help you until you admit you're a woman?

If you're indoctrinated, you might want to have a time out, tbh. Weird word to use.

Yes. They had a right to work with other people and cease their work with Milli and tweet about it, Milli had a right to call them out on false statements and point out their shabby treatment of her, and people on Twitter have a right to challenge them if they don't agree with them, as an organisation.

Everyone has the right to speak. Milli isn't responsible for what people say on Twitter, is she?

If you're indoctrinated, you might want to have a time out, tbh. Weird word to use.

Quite.

Well, quite. But as i said, the work that birthrights does is more important than milli's feelings.

And the fact that they've had to close their social media shows that pile ons don't just go one way, doesn't it?

And the fact that they've had to close their social media shows that pile ons don't just go one way, doesn't it?

Perhaps they should get over their own "hurt feelings", and move on, rather than dramatically flounce from Twitter? Or does that only go one way?

To me it shows that theyre not getting drawn further in tbh. They've obviously got better things to do.

@Needapoodle

Yeah that's cool. Buy what do you say to the non binary person who has been abused in childbirth? Sorry we won't help you until you admit you're a woman?

"Suggesting" something which literally no-one has said isn't a great indicator that you're here in good faith.

You give them the help they need. Obviously. That you need to ask is weird.

But as i said, the work that birthrights does is more important than milli's feelings.

I'll direct you to my earlier post:

A lot of charities and organisations do vital work. That isn't a free pass to do anything they like without censure.

@Needapoodle

Well, quite. But as i said, the work that birthrights does is more important than milli's feelings.

And the fact that they've had to close their social media shows that pile ons don't just go one way, doesn't it?

Very true. A salutary lesson for every one tempted to play power games via social media. So given that Milli also does great work for women, I presume you'll be able to explain why she was wrong and they were right, given that we seem to have agreed that pile on punishments are wrong? Given that Milli's statements and questions were incredibly anodyne.

*"Suggesting" something which literally no-one has said isn't a great indicator that you're here in good faith.

You give them the help they need. Obviously. That you need to ask is weird.*

How does the non binary person know that they will be helped, if birthrights only says women?

Suggesting" something which literally no-one has said isn't a great indicator that you're here in good faith.

It's pretty much what Birthrights implied, that not believing in gender identity ideology means you dismiss that trans people suffer obstetric violence or need help, when what is actually the case is that you recognise that this is exclusively a female issue.

How does the non binary person know that they will be helped, if birthrights only says women?

Because these people know perfectly well what a woman actually is, whatever their ideology claims.

Birthrights didn't pile on to anyone. They released a statement saying they didn't want to work with milli any more. If the things she's said may put off transmen and non binary people from seeking help, then of course that's what they have to do. The lives of traumatized people are not a battleground to argue about semantics around gender.

How does the non binary person know that they will be helped, if birthrights only says women?
You're going to have to give a bit more information about this specific scenario here.
You're talking about someone who's pregnant and has seen a poster? Or is involved with regular maternity care?
I'll try and guess what a fictional person might know, in the spirit of debate, but you'll have to give me more than that. Is English their first language?

"Because these people know perfectly well what a woman actually is, whatever their ideology claims."

And there you go again.

The lives of traumatized people are not a battleground to argue about semantics around gender.

So you're against anyone arguing about semantics and what language might mean, if there's a chance that the other party might be traumatised?

Woman = adult human female, the only people capable of getting pregnant and giving birth.

Women get pregnant, women give birth.

Call yourself what you like, "identify" how you want.

Don't fuck about with biologically meaningful terms.