Pushback at Wi Spa in Los Angeles

[FannyCann]

Well it's all kicking off at the spa. An amazing woman behind the desk standing up for women and telling a man where to take his penis. I fear she will lose her job over this but it's a glorious way to go.

twitter.com/stillgray/status/1408997169344909313?s=21

@Tistheseason17
"I have no issues with transgender women using the female changing room. It does take a long time to get surgery to transition. "

The vast majority of 'transwomen' have no interest in surgery, normally it's just a change of name, pronouns and clothing. Cutting-edge practice now is to eschews even outward signs of supposed femininity: see for example this member of staff at a US university.

@EsmaCannonball

Some women may be uncomfortable being around naked women or being naked in front of other women but it's men who commit the vast majority of violent offences and it's men who commit almost all acts of voyeurism, revenge porn, upskirting, indecent exposure, sexual assault, rape and sexually-motivated murder. These men escalate their crimes. No man gets his cock out in the women's locker room with innocent motivation. Women aren't complaining about this because they are prudish or uncomfortable; women are complaining because they know when to be afraid. They know when a man is getting off on their fear and humiliation. Now we've been completely disempowered for objecting to this because gender ideology has magicked away the crime. ' No, madam, that is a woman with her penis out and it is you who has committed the hate crime.' It's so dystopianly sinister.

Yes this.

We knew this would happen and indeed has been happening. Given there's a report posted above from 2018 that didn't go viral I think we can assume that this newly permissible indecent exposure is happening way more than gets reported.

It's impossible to quantify in numbers the women and girls affected who just silently cease their favourite activities and curtail their lives further because they no longer feel safe in spaces they had an expectation would be penis free.

Lifelong zen practitioner?

That isn’t making me feel zen.

Perhaps they could give me tips.

They have just legalised indecent exposure.

The next step will be to criminalise (as opposed to just slander as bigots) the women who are victims of the indecent exposure. The desk staff who thought trans was a sexual orientation (presumably because it's tacked onto Lesbian and Gay) did mention "the law"....

That was in response to peadarm

Given there's a report posted above from 2018 that didn't go viral I think we can assume that this newly permissible indecent exposure is happening way more than gets reported.

There will be few if any records of indecent exposure in women's facilities anywhere where there is self ID or a cultural change which is effectively self ID. Exposure of a "female penis" in a female changing room is to be expected under self ID so there's nothing to report.

We've been stitched up by #bekind and the hard of thinking.

I felt sorry for the staff member who didn't seem that clued in, mentioning "sexual orientation" as opposed to "gender identity."
It must be even more awful for someone who is clued in and gender critical to be working at a place like that, having to choose between ditching/losing their job or having to represent this kind of bs.

That woman was absolutely right. Well done, her! And she will have given many of the other customers watching something to think about. As we have seen many times most people, if they were at all aware of the trans ideology, will have thought that "a transgender" was a man who had no penis or testicles.

Just think how much more the spa business has to lose if women won't go there any more, than if they offend woke blokes by defending women's privacy.

Cutting-edge practice now is to eschews even outward signs of supposed femininity: see for example this member of staff at a US university.

"Nick Walker is a queer autistic transdisciplinary scholar"

Can anyone be a trans disciplinary scholar? Perhaps that is the root of the problem. People whose original specialty was say history or sociology trans identifying as a biological scientist?

The desk staff who thought trans was a sexual orientation (presumably because it's tacked onto Lesbian and Gay) did mention "the law"....

As we know from the recent pieces about Stonewall in the Times, creating confusion about gender identify and sexual orientation is intentional.

I recall the discussion in this thread about arguing about the wrong thing (as well as loneliness and Arendt but mostly because of the excellent OP and the screenshot reminder on pg 10 of Bowelofbabelfish):

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3312516-Are-we-arguing-about-the-wrong-thing?reverse=1

The reviews are brutal

www.yelp.com/biz/wi-spa-los-angeles-2?start=40

If the changing room is advertised as a 'female' changing room then there should be no cock and balls anywhere in there. That's it. It's not fair on the women who have been led to believe that they are in a female space.

@OldCrone

Without knowing more info, it does sound like a self declaring male who wants to be in a female space, rather than a transgender female.

How can we tell the difference between these two types of people?

And if a person has a penis, why does it matter what their internal feeling about their gender is?

Exactly - this line of thought basically says that women's feelings of comfort and dignity are entirely dependent on how the male in their presence feels.

So male who identifies as a male flashing their penis and testicles in a female changing room - women are allowed to feel anxiety and discomfort and ask him to leave.

Male who feels like a woman on the inside flashing their penis and testicles in a female changing room - women should be totally accepting of this, are not allowed to feel any anxiety or discomfort and in fact if they do they are bigots.

So the whole thing is dictated by males feelings, the women are not allowed any feelings outside of this.

Pure misogyny.

[quote PandorasMailbox]The reviews are brutal

www.yelp.com/biz/wi-spa-los-angeles-2?start=40[/quote]
Good to see our American sisters standing up for their rights!

I don't think I've mentioned this on these boards yet, but I was in a Primark not to long ago, which now have mixed sex changing rooms. The cubicle (curtained, no doors) I first went into had what looked like cum on the seat. I went into the next cubicle along. A member of staff called out to me and asked me if there was anything on my seat. I told her no, but there was in the next one along. Perhaps the woke staff at this spa won't be so keep to uphold men's rights to commit sex crimes when they start having to clear up random men's cum from the women's changing rooms.

[quote Tistheseason17]@ScreamingMeMe

Why, "NO"?
Promise I am not being goady - just keen to understand people's views.

I am just talking with DH and we know of females/males in changing rooms who simply let it all hang out quite "in your face" and unwanted, and neither of us want to see that no matter how "confident" the person wandering around is or what gender persuasion they are.[/quote]
Men commit the vast majority of rapes, sexual assaults, sexual harrassment incidents, voyeurism incidents and flashing incidents.

Places where people are naked are separated by sex for good reason.

I wouldn't just "feel uncomfortable" to see a naked man in a female-only space. I'd feel creeped out, intimidated and, quite frankly, violated. And I think that is the desired result.

You yourself doubt that a genuine transwoman would do such a thing (and I agree with you). So why would a man do it? As a PP has said, I doubt there's an innocent reason for it.

Seeing a member of the same sex "letting it all hang out" just isn't the same at all. I might feel a bit uncomfortable or embarrassed, but I wouldn't expect they would be getting some sort of sexual thrill from it. And I know if worst came to worst I'd have a fighting chance of defending myself against a woman if I needed to (this sort of behaviour does escalate in a lot of cases). I'd stand little chance of fighting off most men. (Those pesky biological differences again.)

Damn EsmaCannonball said it all first and said it better

Yes screaming

Yes she did.

Brava esma 👏🏼

I work with young women who really don't feel the way that other posters feel.

They do not question the internal feelings of their friends and accept their self declared gender and would happily share a changing room even if they had a penis.

I am neither dim nor disingenuous. I just want to understand why people feel the way they do. Thank you to the posters who treated me with kindness and have given me food for thought.

I'm leaning towards acceptance. And I have been the victim of a male several times so I can hold the view that I would not be scared of my trans friend if we went swimming.

That said, I do believe that as with anything there will always be a minority who are not genuine.

Homosexuality used to be illegal, so things that were once not believed as possible are now mainstream and celebrated. You can't "see" gay any more than you can "see" gender identity.

As PP noted - how the heck do we know who is dangerous or not- they don't wear a badge. But, there are lots of dangerous men around and the majority are already committing acts of violence in daily life without declaring a different gender.

@FannyCann

Cutting-edge practice now is to eschews even outward signs of supposed femininity: see for example this member of staff at a US university.

"Nick Walker is a queer autistic transdisciplinary scholar"

Can anyone be a trans disciplinary scholar? Perhaps that is the root of the problem. People whose original specialty was say history or sociology trans identifying as a biological scientist?

No, that's just great! My degree is in philosophy but I identify as the head of the Department of Neuropathology, and it's never been a problem.

An unknown, intact male suddenly showing up naked in what wome think is a safe, single-sex space is instinctively perceived as a threat.

A naturist beach or whatever, everyone knows what's going to be hanging out. It's consenting adults. A changing room is different. It's a shock and a threat.

An intact male could change in the men's without any issues, so why does he intrude? Is his presumed fear of all the men more important than the fear he provokes in all the women and girls there? Why does one person's discomfort count for more than the discomfort of many?

Tell the men to be nice, not the women.

And make businesses that allow or encourage this suffer by the disappearance of women's money.

What about girls and young women at schools, though, where they can't just take their money and go elsewhere?

I assumed that it's just a cooler way to say interdisciplinary - though that does imply some real background in various relevant areas.

As PP noted - how the heck do we know who is dangerous or not- they don't wear a badge. But, there are lots of dangerous men around and the majority are already committing acts of violence in daily life without declaring a different gender.

This reads like a counsel of despair - and would sanction the removal of single-sex spaces where women and girls can rely upon their right to a feeling of safety there.

And, tbh, an intact male who elects to sit in a female changing space, is wearing a badge of sorts.

As somebody recently observed, the assertion of power in the story of the emperor and his new clothes was never about the nudity, it was about the power the emperor had to expose himself in public as an act of intimidation and dominance, and for nobody to have the right to comment on it.

As PP noted - how the heck do we know who is dangerous or not- they don't wear a badge. But, there are lots of dangerous men around and the majority are already committing acts of violence in daily life without declaring a different gender.

Yes there are men committing violence in daily life. And yes, we don’t know who is dangerous or not.

My husband blindsided me. I had no inkling it was coming after years together.

So how the hell am I supposed to know from a stranger how dangerous they are?

I don’t.

Which is why I really really would like a female safe space without a man in it.

Call it self preservation.

I’m happy for people to live how they want to live. Just not at the expense of my rights to live and be in a place where I feel safe.

@Tistheseason17

I work with young women who really don't feel the way that other posters feel.

They do not question the internal feelings of their friends and accept their self declared gender and would happily share a changing room even if they had a penis.

I am neither dim nor disingenuous. I just want to understand why people feel the way they do. Thank you to the posters who treated me with kindness and have given me food for thought.

I'm leaning towards acceptance. And I have been the victim of a male several times so I can hold the view that I would not be scared of my trans friend if we went swimming.

That said, I do believe that as with anything there will always be a minority who are not genuine.

Homosexuality used to be illegal, so things that were once not believed as possible are now mainstream and celebrated. You can't "see" gay any more than you can "see" gender identity.

As PP noted - how the heck do we know who is dangerous or not- they don't wear a badge. But, there are lots of dangerous men around and the majority are already committing acts of violence in daily life without declaring a different gender.

No, you can't see 'gay' but you can certainly see gender identity. It shows in the outward (sexed) body of the person who's in the wrong sex changing room.

NO should be enough.