Joan of Arc was trans????

[Greenandcabbagelooking]

It's Schools Diversity Week this week. There has been no mention of any kind of diversity other than LGBTQIA+. Heavy on the T. We've been reminded every day for weeks about this.

Today's update says Joan of Arc was trans because she didn't dress like a woman. There's even a discussion on the pronouns she (sorry, he/they) would have used. Silly me, I though Joan was just a woman who was fed up with the limitations her sex imposed on her. Clearly short hair + trousers = man.

I'm all for showing young people a diverse range of role models, but transing people who lived several hundred years ago is not all that helpful.

Joan of arc is perfect for the TRAs isn't she, you know on account of the martyrdom...

Wait til they cotton on to Pope Joan. She had a baby so will probably be touted as the Seahorse Pope!

Bollocks was Joan of Arc trans. It might be worth sharing the DfE guidelines with the school - they’re linked to from here and specifically ban suggesting that how someone dresses etc is linked to gender identity.

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/

Yes exactly. Corsets and wimples tend to get in the way when skewering men on the battlefield...

I did wonder about Pope Joan.
I heard the story about a chair the New popes had to sit in, so they could check he was male.

[quote EmpressWitchDoesntBurn]Bollocks was Joan of Arc trans. It might be worth sharing the DfE guidelines with the school - they’re linked to from here and specifically ban suggesting that how someone dresses etc is linked to gender identity.

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/[/quote]
The cognitive dissonance is just astounding isn't it? How has this movement not eaten itself yet?

@Bollindger

I did wonder about Pope Joan. I heard the story about a chair the New popes had to sit in, so they could check he was male.

Yes that's true. Of course they'll need a different test these days I suppose.... one that's more about feeeeeeelings or something (what?!)??? The Pope already wears a tiara and a dress so I suppose gender costumes are out! Ooh what to do?!

So awful and offensive. What’s next, Marie curie was trans because physics is for men? George Eliot was trans for using a male pseudonym?

@Bollindger

How twisted. A female who was so religious and patriotic and was convinced God was speaking to her, she insipred her king to fight for his crown. She donned armour to fight, not to dress like a boy.

All this.

And when she was put on trial, it was for witchcraft (if I remember rightly). At least ostensibly.

Down the centuries men have been tried and convicted of witchcraft but it has been predominantly women. And predominantly women who appeared to be a challenge to the patriarchy in some way (because they were single, and/or outspoken, and/or stood out from "the norm" in some way.)

It's horrifying how school teaching is being twisted to cater for the demands of a very vocal and intolerant minority. Tolerance has to cut both ways. Equality before the law, yes. Bullying all sorts of groups and people into kowtowing to ideology, no.

Surely posthumous transing is transphobic, I thought we weren't supposed to assume anyone's gender or pronouns.

Posthumous transing is a big thing - got to show that trans people have always existed.

4thwavenow.com/tag/transgender-history/

George Eliot was trans for using a male pseudonym?

There is already a TRA doing just that, think it was the one who described women as little more than passive receivers of sex and domestic workhorses.

FFS that's outrageous.

Yes because a woman can't be a knight, have short hair or fight for her passionate cause - must be a man. Sexist, offensive bullshit and not all that "diverse" either.

I try not to be "that" parent. But if this happened at my school I would That Parent them into next week.

Still, think of all the powerful and famous people who were really women. Not just most popes - look at Charles II. Long hair, tights, frills, heels, heavy on the blusher. Woman!

I'm sure the Daily Mail would like this OP!

This shit is demoting women and girls, once again, to being second class human beings.

If we have short hair and if we are brave, clever or original, we must be boys / trans. These are simply not attributes that women or girls can possibly have.

Women and girls' permitted attributes are decorative, submissive, "kind" and compliant.

We are back 100 years.

I'd love to challenge it, but too worried about my job. I didn't show it to my class, but we did talk about people who defy stereotypes who and/or and LGB, or not not old, white men. Jo Cox, Nicola Adams, Katherine Grainger, Ian McKellen to name but a few.

See also the doctor James Barry. Probably not trans, just a woman who wanted to be a surgeon and wasn't allow because of her sex.

I believe someone's had a go at claiming Elizabeth I was trans too. Ludicrous.

Hadn't twigged you are a teacher, rather than a parent @Greenandcabbagelooking, sorry. I can see that it might be tricky for you to push back on this if you think it will bring negative consequences for you personally.

I haven't checked these quotations back to source but:

"I was admonished to adopt feminine clothes; I refused, and still refuse. As for other avocations of women, there are plenty of other women to perform them."

She often called herself the maid/maiden.
"The Maid and her soldiers will have the victory."

So who should we listen to - Joan herself or someone else? Not only did she say she was a woman; she was also clear that what she wore didn't change that and she wouldn't be limited to supposed womanly pursuits but was happy to leave them to "other women".

@Greenandcabbagelooking

I'd love to challenge it, but too worried about my job. I didn't show it to my class, but we did talk about people who defy stereotypes who and/or and LGB, or not not old, white men. Jo Cox, Nicola Adams, Katherine Grainger, Ian McKellen to name but a few.

But in what sense was Jo Cox defying a stereotype? There have been women MPs for a hundred years. Admittedly not many until the Second World War but in the 21st century, lots.

Jo Cox as a young and passionate politician who died a terrible death at the hands of an extremist.

And why Ian McKellen? Because he's gay? That's hardly unusual in the acting profession.

Joan of Arc dressed in "men's clothing" for protection, both on the battle field aswell as in prison. She couldn't wear a dress on a horse and go fight. In prison she refused to wear a dress, because when she did the guards sexually assaulted her every night. When she refused to wear a dress she got burned at the stake.

It was an impossible situation. She was setup to fail.

Oh I get it.

So Queen Elizabeth didn't just have the heart and stomach of a King, she was a King?

And Marie and Pierre Curie were actually a same sex relationship?

And Jane Austin now goes by "John"?

And basically any and all women who were ever interesting and impressive in any way other than being pretty ... were actually men? Thereby women have never actually achieved anything?

Wow, that's much easier than having to go to the trouble of actually stealing a woman's writing, art, scientific discovery etc and put a man's name on it and give him all the prizes and adulation, now we simply later re-write her as a man!

Alchemy! Marvellous.

@Bollindger

How twisted. A female who was so religious and patriotic and was convinced God was speaking to her, she insipred her king to fight for his crown. She donned armour to fight, not to dress like a boy.

I don't think she ever actually fought, she was certainly an inspiring leader but never went into battle.

She did dress and present as a man though, one of the reasons the poor woman was executed I believe

No she didn't. She wore armour and men's clothes. That isn't "presenting as a man". She said she was a woman. Everyone knew she was a woman. She was burnt at the stake because she was a young woman, who dared to be different and refused to back down. It is beyond offensive to regard those as male qualities only.