Joan of Arc was trans????

[Greenandcabbagelooking]

It's Schools Diversity Week this week. There has been no mention of any kind of diversity other than LGBTQIA+. Heavy on the T. We've been reminded every day for weeks about this.

Today's update says Joan of Arc was trans because she didn't dress like a woman. There's even a discussion on the pronouns she (sorry, he/they) would have used. Silly me, I though Joan was just a woman who was fed up with the limitations her sex imposed on her. Clearly short hair + trousers = man.

I'm all for showing young people a diverse range of role models, but transing people who lived several hundred years ago is not all that helpful.

@GoingGently

As did Katherine of Aragon and her mum Isabella, which I always thought was really cool. Both strong and well loved queens, as was Elizabeth I.

Are we getting to the point where we need to set up specialist schools that have curriculums based on facts, reality and critical independent thought? I do not want my children to be subjected to double think, #bekind totalitarianism and misinformation.

We could call it Hogwarts

@SapphireSeptember I might get some posters for my bedroom! (Despite being 39 )

Erm @MNHQ, please could you explain what you edited in my post and why? Thanks!

@Greenandcabbagelooking you cannot be sacked for holding beliefs. Being gender (a bullshit word) critical is a protected characteristic, as confirmed by Maya Forstater's win in court the other week. Now for Keira Ball and Sonia Appleby to win theirs and the TRAs can go and cry harder.

@MrsBunHat

So true turquoise. What about rasputin? He wore a dress and necklace, had long hair, and an Alex Drummond beard.

Loads of religious men if you think about it! Popes, bishops. . .the strangest outfits, must be trans!

If Joan of Arc was trans, so were all the women referred to in this article.

Suffragettes? Obviously a trans movement.

The cognitive dissonance and stretching anything to be seen as woke and inclusive is tiresome.

Jesus wore a dress…

[quote TwoLeftSocksWithHoles]@marshmallowswede

One must assume that the converse is also true, so if a man grows his hair he becomes a women, as he does if he wears a kilt! Or earrings?[/quote]
Oh God. I mentally misgendered a whole group of kilt wearers on the tube the other day.

@EmpressWitchDoesntBurn

The assumption that any strong woman who refused to conform to societal expectations must be trans was, and is, quite spectacularly sexist. It’s funny that the people pushing this idea don’t realise that it’s the absolute opposite of progressive.

Depressing, especially when it's teachers or others who work with young people who are (by definition) impressionable.

I think a lot of people just fall in with it all because they are afraid of being perceived as bigots. This is the atmosphere that trans activists have created.

Trans activist themselves (or the most vocal ones, anyway) aren't remotely progressive, a lot of them clearly despise biological women.

What the hell does Sam Smith mean when he says "I feel like a woman therefore I am one"? Has he ever had periods? Has he ever been able to get pregnant? Has he ever been on the receiving end of rape threats/ sexual harassment while walking down the street or just getting on with his life? No. He is a self-indulgent attention-seeker. And this whole movement seems to appeal to such folk. What the hell does he really know what life is like for biological women?!

I do accept some people are trans. They have usually felt this since they were very young. They don't just decide this when they are in their 30s or 40s or older and want some extra publicity.

Boudicca was obviously a man then as she fought and led armies, although looking at her statue she wasn't wearing trousers

For. Fuck's. Sake.

This makes me so angry.

@MarshmallowSwede

Sweden is a sensible and very rational place. No one has time for foolishness. And we value a high level of social cohesion so everyone wants to get along. It is a nice place.

No one is definitely going to be tolerating this nonsense there.

And if I really think about it I’ve not ever seen any trans or anyone openly gay in Sweden. Of course they exist but we just don’t have this “do as I want” attitude. You don’t want to be the centre of attention.

I will not raise my child here because I can’t be sure what propaganda they are going to have thrown at them at school.

Tbh .. I’m ready to go back. My husband is hating it more and more. He was never paying attention to this sort of thing but now we are having a baby, he is disturbed and seems frantic for us to get out of here.

I found Stockholm to be very LGBT friendly, in fact I would say its one of the most open places I have ever been. Have you never seen Stockholm pride or the huge one in Gothenberg ? How about Euro pride that Sweden host ?

Sweden is gay friendly, weren't they the first to make homosexuality legal, gay marriage etc ?
You make it sound very repressive but that's not how I remember it.
It's a top place for a nice Trans holiday

Oh I posted to early, the most important point, I believe Swedes have been able to change their legal gender before surgery since the seventies
Maybe you just don't notice the transwomen because they blend in

God, it’s a misogynists dream come true, removing all of the women that managed to get their names in the history books whilst living in such a sexist society, can now be re-written as men.

All they need now is to find Hitler had a thing for wearing suspenders and what do you know, all those evils are now attributed to a woman. 🙄

I’m from Stockholm. I’m Swedish.

I am not saying it is repressive. I don’t think anyone would describe Sweden as repressive. And I didn’t say we do not have gay people or trans people. I said we value social cohesion. Meaning people in general don’t want to be disruptive. Gay straight or trans.. everyone blends in. Of course Sweden is open to all people. As long as you aren’t disruptive of society. And no one is “special” in Sweden. Everyone is treated well and equal.

Again the social cohesion things is especially important and no one should think they are special over anyone else in society. And your rights don’t matter more than the rights of another in society. This used to be common everywhere. But it seems to be less and less. Scandinavia isn’t some bastion of doing everything right, but we do at least expect everyone to be respected and you don’t get to be “special” at the expense of others.

This isn’t the case in the UK it seems from my observation. And that’s fine.. different country. But Swedes, while open, we really try to have a good society for all. And that again.. means social cohesion.

That’s the whole point and one reason why we rate so high in wellness and have a good society. There is no one who is singled out as a special group. If our model of what a functioning society is is unpalatable for
Anyone who feels they need special treatment, then Sweden probably isn’t the place for them. But if you want to integrate and “blend in” and join in society then it’s wonderful.

No one is going to play pretend and act like women are not women however and not going to act like trans women are women. You can be what you like, but biology matters, as well as language.

We definitely are not going to take a person from history and completely change the narrative around who they are.

And we value science. People can call themselves whatever they want, but biology is biology. We won’t punish anyone for believing they are whatever they think they are, but rationality and science matter.

The British can do what you like in your land and your society. But it definitely doesn’t seem to be working out well. Does it?

Sure come to Sweden on a holiday. We will take your money. It all spends the same.

What makes you think that this teacher was a 'radical feminist', Tangledtresses.

Radical feminism does not scorn single parents.

You are mistaken.

@MiladyBerserko

What makes you think that this teacher was a 'radical feminist', Tangledtresses.

Radical feminism does not scorn single parents.

You are mistaken.

Perhaps the teacher herself told TanglesTresses that she (i.e. the teacher) is a radical feminist.

In which case, it is the teacher who is mistaken and hasn't a clue what she's talking about. Equating a single mother with neglect is right out of the patriarchy handbook and has no place in ANY shade of feminism.

Yah! and all those Victorian trans coal mine labourers. It all makes sense now 🙃

@RedDogsBeg

Boudicca was obviously a man then as she fought and led armies, although looking at her statue she wasn't wearing trousers

She probably did wear trousers, many Celts did because of the cold. Apparently the Romans thought their trousers were barbaric. I sometimes imagine their faces the first time they encountered a stiff British gust of wind!

There's a point, the Romans wore something akin to skirts. Does that mean the entirety of the Roman legions were trans? An entire army of women, now that would be progressive!

Kate Bush did a beautiful song about Joan of Arc called Joanni . Rabid mis-gendering

https://open.spotify.com/track/0Zrt8pmJiC2suL3nOtY91a?si=ArzyfJZsSuqhthfQ1UxHpg&dl_branch=1

Or OMD

https://open.spotify.com/track/3k61ZhyGGjLsOHQWnXCCSz?si=UfTHAwYWRUW0O0nDFQPGlQ&dl_branch=1

Actual violence by both artists. Shocking

@MarshmallowSwede I am also Swedish and I wonder if you have been following this debate i Sweden in recent years? You say: "No one is going to play pretend and act like women are not women however and not going to act like trans women are women. You can be what you like, but biology matters, as well as language."

Politics in Sweden around self ID and gender identity are not that different from here in the UK, in fact in many ways it is worse. Do you know that we have a convicted murderer who murdered and dismembered their girlfriend, then identified as a woman and was moved to a women's prison?

nyheter24.se/nyheter/935942-styckmordaren-kristoffer-johansson-blev-kim-marie-sa-lever-hon-idag

That is self ID.

Do you know that Swedish gymnasts up to age 18 can choose which "gender" category they compete in?

www.svt.se/sport/gymnastik/gymnaster-far-valja-tavlingsklass-oavsett-juridiskt-kon

That is self ID.

There are many, many more examples of this, I am surprised that you think things are so different in Sweden. There is a huge debate finally going on about this in Sweden now, due to very brave feminists such as Kajsa Ekis Ekman and her new book: Om könets existens: tankar om den nya synen på kön.

Yes I’m aware and I think we speak a bit more openly about not agreeing with this sort of thing.

I don’t know anyone at home who agrees with self ID nor with boys or men competing in women’s sports. It was bound to have issues with men self reporting and putting women at risk.

Of course I don’t know everyone in Sweden, but I have never once heard anyone say they are ok with self ID or of trans women or girls in sports. It’s on thing to have celebrities and politicians push it, but I don’t think the larger Swedish public has ever really supported this sort of thing.

To me for some reason discussions here around it do not seem rooted in reality. While we seem to be (perhaps I’m wrong) a bit more willing to be honest that these are men wanting access to women’s spaces. I think that changes alot of discourse around the discussion.

We are going back soon so I will be interested to see how this pans out. There are also huge issues with this in America. So the global discussions around self ID I really think are a huge battle ground for women’s rights at this moment.

One thing that’s going to change is that we now have a self ID trans woman in the Tokyo Olympics. Now everyone will see with their own eyes how harmful self ID is. I really do think Sweden will at some point do away with self ID because you just can’t justify doing away with women’s rights. Or at least alter it in a way that changes to acknowledge this is not beneficial for society.

Perhaps I’m wrong, but I don’t see any other way. How are we going to ensure women’s spaces remain women’s spaces? No one is ever going to convince me that putting a man in a women’s prison is ok, nor a man competing in women’s sports as ok.

I wouldn’t want my daughter competing with biological boys in sports. And I myself don’t want biological men no matter how they identify in women’s only spaces.

I’ve also seen people saying that because these women are in prison it doesn’t matter. They are being punished. But I do not agree at all with this. They are under the care of the prison and duty of care means they should not be placed in an undue harm.

Frankly, there is absolutely no justification for men in women’s prisons ever. And it is becoming more and more common for self ID prisoners who happen to be male to say they are women so they can go to women’s prisons. It’s not only an issue in Sweden. There are many in America. Many in the UK. The truth is this is convenient for men to self
ID at the expense of women.

I think we will see how things pan out after the outcry from the Olympics. I don’t see self ID being seen as so great after that. Obviously the public is already against it.

I’m going to order her book.

I don’t see parents being ok with boys on girls sports. So while they make this decision now, I see parents upon seeing their daughters competing with biological boys not being happy.

I really do think the Olympics will show the world just how detrimental this all is.

@MrsOvertonsWindow

Removing women from history now? How progressive regressive.

Exactly what I thought. This has been planned, there’s a definite campaign against women, it’s obvious to me now