This was a bad idea

[GCandproud]

Splitting the forums that is. Sex and gender underlies all feminist issues and you’re now ensuring that a lot of important topics don’t get as much traffic. I won’t be hanging around here but just wanted to make my views clear.

@sausagebap

will no-one rid me of this meddlesome zebra?

Lol!

One for general feminism and a more liberal view
One for feminism centering the women and trans rights discussion.

See I don't think the new boards are for specific views within feminism. Feminism chat is general issues. The sex/gender debate section is for threads specifically about that topic.

The Lib fems are welcome to argue their views in there, as I am free to comment in chat. Anything else would be ridiculously controlling.

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman

Posting is highly intimidating and not in the slightest informative.
not in the slightest informative?
Speak for yourself. I have learned a massive amount from the feminist board.

When I started the sentence with "In my experience..." that is exactly what I was stating. My experience.

Why oh why is it all so bitter.

Women don't have to be nice, it's true, women can also have differing opinions. But when there is a mob mentality and any true discussion is at best ridiculed, it gets tiring and extremely boring.

The split isn't in viewpoints. That would be absolutely pathetic on a discussion forum. It's a split in topics.

@Quaggars

Is there no feminist chat now? I've only just seen this - confused

Yes, there still is.
There's two feminist boards
One for general feminism and a more liberal view
One for feminism centering the women and trans rights discussion.

Oooof no Quaggars, that's not it. 'General feminism' isn't what you wanted or got.

You wanted to avoid discussion of sex based rights & to include males in your feminism, which is definitely a thing, although judging by posts & polls on AIBU it's a bit niche, & not what most MNers understand as feminism.

You have the board you asked for.

Disingenuous.

I find this split extremely annoying. I probably won't end up reading very much in this section as a result, it's too chunky to look up this section specially

Why oh why is it all so bitter.
I do sympathise about that. I first started lurking here when it was a much quieter place and posters were endlessly patient and good humoured. I remember Datun in particular would spend hours listening and debating without belittling anyone.

Speaking strictly for me, I'm mostly angry about the way this has been done by MNHQ. I'm unimpressed. But I think now it's up to all the posters who felt intimidated and who wanted the new arrangement to step up and make it work. And you know it might work. But you can't ban disagreement - it's a discussion forum not a safe space.

I forgot to say that a number of those endlessly patient and good humoured posters aren't here any more. They ended up being barred, or they got pissed off with ducking and diving around the ever changing rules. There are good reasons why people are annoyed.

Thanks @floisme

I guess I missed that boat, which is a shame. The anger and group close down unfortunately alienates many.

I have read around the topic but most views would appear to be extremes, I definitely fall in the middle ground currently.

I didn't request a separate forum, I don't believe the name at the top makes the slightest difference as to who has a right to respond. It will likely be just the same in all honesty.

[quote jellybeansforbreakfast]@everybodysang no, it was over there and was moved here, it will hover on both for a short while. And I don't even know where 'here' is at the moment.

Someone is, presumably, busy reporting whole threads for misdemeanours that few of us actually understand yet. I REALLY don't think the Mods are going to enjoy this change at all![/quote]
AH! Thank you. I was very confused.

No worries chickenyhead I consider myself lucky to have been a lurker before it all started kicking off and to have started posting before all the rules came in.

I honestly don't consider most views on here to be that extreme, although I guess that depends on where you think the extremes lie. But patience is thin for sure. It wears you down when you have to walk on eggshells all the time.

You have the board you asked for.

Disingenuous.

I haven't asked for anything.
I do like that MN have done this though.

Agree OP, the policing of the two separate boards is bullshit.

Quaggars

Don’t have fishing rod by any chance?

Am still waiting for you to post anything that will give MN something they can use to turn around and say it was positive move in splitting the boards rather than why didn’t they just move you and other complaints email into junk filter.

I don’t blame women for leaving as I haven’t been able to tolerate shit at least with Twitter can block but I hope they stay around as they only reason why likes of me bother coming here as know learn something.

why didn't they move you and other complaints email into junk folder
I've already said, I didn't complain about the boards or ask for anything so not exactly sure why you're still insisting I did.

Well just from a cursory glance it seems that there is much more going on in this section than in the other one. Be careful what you wish for and all that.

@corkernewyorker

710 pages of threads on Feminism: sex and gender debate and 3 on Feminism:chat. Says it all really.

I think your kindly provided data speak for themselves. It says it's an important subject that a lot of women are concerned about.

What do you think it says?

@Quaggars

Isn't that like me complaining about Style and Beauty, a board I very rarely go to, and complaining I don't like most of the threads they post there because they show up in active?

No, not really, as Style and Beauty is what it is.
About style and beauty.
It is perfectly possible to be a feminist and/or interested in feminism topics without holding a GC viewpoint, despite what some might believe.

There have been at least 2 threads in Style & Beauty in the past few weeks bemoaning the state of that board
and complaining that the clothes being posted about weren't fashionable enough, and even suggestions that S&B be split into two

@chickenyhead

From my experience, I read the feminism boards but rarely post.

Posting is highly intimidating and not in the slightest informative. Perhaps in the old days time would be given to leading a horse to water. But nowadays it is a total aggressive pile on.

I doubt very much that a new board will change anything as the underlying vitriol will remain. No doubt, having read this thread, this too will be decimated by the bullies.

The push to get the GC ldebate on to the mainstream boards such as AIBU would appear to have backfired.

Lol

About 10 years ago the complaint was 'the feminist board is too intellectual - it is far too intimidating to post since I don't have a degree in gender' - seriously this argument was posted all the time on the main board and women on the feminist board said 'not at all come and discuss' but nobody did. Now it is another reason why the feminist board was intimidating, perhaps in another 5 years the reason the board is intimidating and other poor women can't participate will be something different. I bet it will still be the fault of the feminists though.

Well Style and Beauty is also plagued at the moment with posters jumping on to threads to tell us all that they're not interested in clothes - presumably they got lost looking for the Existentialism or the Quantum Physics board. I was very against splitting it at first but maybe a second forum for posters who don't care about the topic is the current way to go. It would be a mistake to start a thread about it though - the way to get things done is clearly by private email.

Aren’t the posters who wanted it split happy?

Seems to be what they wanted

Tbh I think it’s good in one way but also made people sound angrier for some reason - even though the request was granted

Maybe it’ll settle down and feminist chat will have threads rather than just having a go at other section

Funny that, because I would consider myself to be a feminist! But fine, make stuff up to reinforce your bitter encampment that you are the lone voice of feminism.

The board had/has a toxic atmosphere of aggression. If these things have been said for years, maybe there is a pattern here with an identifiable constant??

Now that I'm feeling less sore about the way this was done, I think that, if there are posters who didn't feel they could post about feminism before and who now feel that they can then do so - well that will be a good thing. But they will need to step up. At the moment I can see a couple of threads that might have struggled for space before, e.g. on returners to tech but otherwise I think so far the split just emphasises how most of the big issues of the day: transwomen in Olympic women's sport, The Tavistock, female artists being cancelled etc, are all to do with sex and gender ID.

Of course that could change, e.g. if there was another Me Too. I'm watching.

Honestly, I have found boards to be more toxic in the last few days than I ever have. I have been quite taken aback at the vitriol expressed by some posters. Even attempts at good faith conversations are being jumped on as 'sarcastic' or similar. If this is the kind of atmosphere we can expect to experience going forward, I think I'll be spending less time on the Feminism boards in general.

This move by MN has dramatically reduced the time I spend on the site.