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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Victory for Maya!

274 replies

DancesWithTortoises · 10/06/2021 10:44

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1402922169559044096?s=20

Hurrah!

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hiredandsqueak · 10/06/2021 13:51

Fantastic news Flowers Maya

CharlieParley · 10/06/2021 13:54

@kateluvscats

Could someone please summarize what happened and how this ruling will change things. I haven't been following the story but from the snippets I've read the outcome sounds like good news.
Here is an excellent explanation as to what the judgement means from one of Maya's lawyers:

www.linkedin.com/pulse/forstater-judgment-what-next-peter-daly

It has implications far beyond Maya's employment tribunal, including (potentially) the new hate crime bill in Scotland.

Notyours · 10/06/2021 13:54

Lui Asquith, director of legal and policy at Mermaids, a charity that supports transgender, non-binary and gender-diverse children and young people, said: "This is not the win anti-trans campaigners will suggest in the coming days. "We, as trans people, are protected by equality law and this decision in the Maya Forstater case does not give anyone the right to unlawfully harass, intimidate, abuse or discriminate against us because we are trans.

Look at this from BBC news on this case. I am absolutely sick of the lying from these people! This case was not about being able to abuse or discriminate against trans people, it was about the right to hold a belief that people cannot change sex. No GC person is trying to abuse trans people! If they actually listened to what we say, instead of what they want to believe we say, we could probably all have sorted this whole debate out by now to everyone's benefit!

Furries · 10/06/2021 13:55

Brilliant news. Looks like Stonewall are not allowing any comments re this on their twitter feed.

zafferana · 10/06/2021 13:56

Fabulous news! Congratulations Maya Flowers

I just wish that the judge had said that there is nothing inherently wrong with STATING BIOLOGICAL FACT. Because great though this ruling is, biological fact is being labelled as a philosophical belief, which is bollocks. Scientific FACT is not a BELIEF, like Christianity or believing that you're another sex. If we're going to put facts and beliefs in the same box and give them equal weight under the law then we are on a fast track to utter stupidity. Come on law lords, stand up for facts!

Orangecircling · 10/06/2021 13:56

TRAs before the judgement:
If Maya wins anyone can harrass and misgender, men can discriminate against women (that gem from Stonewall's lawyer).

Maya and supporters: That's not true.

TRAs after the judgement: no one can harrass and misgender with impunity.

Maya and supporters: we told you that earlier.

The lies and myths are shocking.

Bollockstothat · 10/06/2021 14:01

That statement from Glinner is magnificent:

No wish to take anything away from what Glinner, has done MrsOvertonsWindow, but it's actually a piece by Rob Jessel, who's worth a follow if you're on twitter.

1Endeavour2 · 10/06/2021 14:04

Now let's get on with undoing the madness which has been done to women and girls.
Anyone notice how the BBC excludes women from conversations with and about trans people when nearly all of the consequences affect women and girls. WE ARE NOT INVISIBLE!!!

fireproofwitch · 10/06/2021 14:04

💖💖💖💖
Congratulations Maya. And thanks to all the wonderful women on FWR who tirelessly fought beside her.

MarshaBradyo · 10/06/2021 14:04

Great news

Timeforabiscuit · 10/06/2021 14:06

On my new employee details form, in the equalities section I crossed out the gender question and replaced it with sex - and ticked the revelevant box of the two options available.

I am still fearful that the job offer will be rescinded because of this.

This judgement is giving me real hope to keep on pushing, questioning and challenging - because it has become so clear to me that kindness and respect is only ever expected one way.

TheFnozwhowasmirage · 10/06/2021 14:07

Huge congratulations Maya. I was so happy to see the news this morning.
Does this mean that we no longer risk the police turning up on our doorsteps if we state biological facts? Hope so,I'm having to self censor and I'm getting fed up of it.

NecessaryScene · 10/06/2021 14:10

I am still fearful that the job offer will be rescinded because of this.

And that's the whole point of this case - if they do rescind it for that, it's clear you can now challenge that as unlawful discrimination.

It would be pretty clear-cut. So they should be very careful not to do such a thing.

Leafstamp · 10/06/2021 14:17

@toffeebutterpopcorn

I saw her ex employers are stamping their feet and holding their breath until their face turns blue. How mature...
No supportive comments that I can see for the ex employers here:

twitter.com/CGDev/status/1402921904973942789

BrownTableMat · 10/06/2021 14:21

@BetterThanKleenex

Yet another court case about trans people with no representation from trans people.

I really hope this doesn't let Marion off the hook.

To quote the estimable Justin Webb, “you don’t know anything about them”.

Did you just assume the gender identity of the judge, lawyers, clerks and all others involved?

veryconcernedparent · 10/06/2021 14:22

Fabulous news! Congratulations Maya flowers

I just wish that the judge had said that there is nothing inherently wrong with STATING BIOLOGICAL FACT. Because great though this ruling is, biological fact is being labelled as a philosophical belief, which is bollocks. Scientific FACT is not a BELIEF, like Christianity or believing that you're another sex. If we're going to put facts and beliefs in the same box and give them equal weight under the law then we are on a fast track to utter stupidity. Come on law lords, stand up for facts!

This with bells on! I really could not agree more, @zafferana !

yourhairiswinterfire · 10/06/2021 14:25

Yet another court case about trans people with no representation from trans people

As has already been pointed out, it wasn't about trans people.

Having said that, a transwoman (I've forgotten her name but I'll look it up) backed Maya originally, and her statement was read out again at the appeal.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 10/06/2021 14:26

Amazing!

I don't think there is now any question as to which side the law is taking on these issues. And it will be by precedent not design as there are a lot of trans rights advocates in the judiciary.

Already the tide has turned a long way from where it was this time last year. So happy to read this news.

Mollyollydolly · 10/06/2021 14:30

That Centre for Global Development tweet is quite something. Good luck in court.

Furries · 10/06/2021 14:32

@Leafstamp - Thanks for linking that, the comments are fantastic!

MimiDaisy11 · 10/06/2021 14:34

It's ridiculous it's gone this far but nice to see some sanity.

Helleofabore · 10/06/2021 14:35

I really hope this doesn't let Marion off the hook.

Well surely this judgement will also mean all those with crowdfunders that were deleted are now able to take the platforms to court for unfair discrimination?

And many of those who have been suspended from twitter and other platforms too. Including Kellie Jay and her merchandise.

Harrydresdenssidekick · 10/06/2021 14:44

Wonderful, wonderful news.

stumbledin · 10/06/2021 14:59

Haven't had time to read everyones comments but just to say this is fantastic news. One of the lead headlines on WatO (BBC take note, having silenced the previous presenters on WH).

And it is so wonderful to see women who through their own strength and integretity have become focal points for those of us not so able to be that, to come together on.

And also to add, for all those who have posted who can I give money to that is actually working to support women's sex based rights. I think we now have the answer. Sex Matters!!

BrownTableMat · 10/06/2021 15:00

Very interesting fact about Anya Palmer, the junior barrister on Maya’s legal team:

Before coming to the bar Anya worked for Stonewall where she was involved in a number of high-profile test cases seeking to establish equal rights for lesbians and gay men.