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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Victory for Maya!

274 replies

DancesWithTortoises · 10/06/2021 10:44

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1402922169559044096?s=20

Hurrah!

OP posts:
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6
BetterThanKleenex · 10/06/2021 13:18

Yet another court case about trans people with no representation from trans people.

I really hope this doesn't let Marion off the hook.

justanotherneighinparadise · 10/06/2021 13:21

@BetterThanKleenex

Yet another court case about trans people with no representation from trans people.

I really hope this doesn't let Marion off the hook.

This wasn’t a court case about ‘trans people’ this was a court case about sex based rights.

The second tribunal will cover the trans debate as that was part of why she was dismissed.

disconnected101 · 10/06/2021 13:22

@Mollyollydolly

Second man at bus stop is basically telling all the gullible children that follow him that it's no big deal and it confirms you can't go around being horrible to trans people at work. Ie: completely ignoring what the case was about as Maya did none of those things. I worry about all the young ons who listen to him, it's all so manipulative.
Exactly. All that stuff that he cherry picked is so obvious. Obviously the ruling doesn't mean that trans people now have fewer protections or that it's now a bit more ok fir a trans person to face discrimination af work. Trans issues were never what this case was about. He's skewing the whole thing to support his own agenda, unsurprisingly.
ChattyLion · 10/06/2021 13:22

BBC have finally covered it:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57426579

Gem176 · 10/06/2021 13:23

I'm still in disbelief that stating a fact such as sex and gender are not the same will lose you your job and force you into a court battle! Delighted that maya has been victorious but it should never have come to this!

disconnected101 · 10/06/2021 13:23

It's being covered on the lunchtime BBC news now

HeronLanyon · 10/06/2021 13:23

Absolutely delighted relieved and little less frightened as a woman today. Ridiculous she had to go through this.
Support all.
Support women’s’ rights and trans rights. One cannot be allowed to diminish the other.

jellybeansforbreakfast · 10/06/2021 13:24

@Zzelda

Great result. But it is worth noting the qualifications:

"This judgment does not mean that those with gender-critical beliefs can ‘misgender’ trans persons with impunity. The Claimant, like everyone else, will continue to be subject to the prohibitions on discrimination and harassment that apply to everyone
else. Whether or not conduct in a given situation does amount to harassment or discrimination within the meaning of EqA will be for a tribunal to determine in a given case.

This judgment does not mean that trans persons do not have the protections against discrimination and harassment conferred by the EqA. They do. Although the protected characteristic of gender reassignment under s.7, EqA would be likely to apply only to a proportion of trans persons, there are other protected characteristics that could potentially be relied upon in the face of such conduct.

This judgment does not mean that employers and service providers will not be able to provide a safe environment for trans persons. Employers would continue to be liable (subject to any defence under s.109(4), EqA) for acts of harassment and discrimination against trans persons committed in the course of employment."

None of which is any problem and has never been something anyone has campaigned for.

Misgendering will occur, it is impossible for it not to. But anyone making a mistake should not be crimimalised. Indeed, should that ever get to court, I would be amongst the first tranche of women bringing cases against any man calling me any misogynistic term more than once.

As with any other human being transpeople have rights. The EA2010 is clear as to how they have specific rights based on their trans status. Nobody should be able to discriminate against them for that. Who would argue otherwise?

Employers and service providers shold porvide a safe envrionment for all employes and users. Again the EA2010 offers specific additional protections, as well as limitations on those protections when they come into conflict with sex based rights. again, who would argue against that?

NONE of that is in anyway new or interesting. It's just a restatement of the status quo in an attempt to obfuscate what WAS said here.

Buyng into the need to make any of that clear is what TRAs, Paisley etc, want us, jurnalists etc to focus on.

So don't. Just keep on repeating it is entirely legal to say "biological sex is real, immutable, human beings cannot change sex"

jellybeansforbreakfast · 10/06/2021 13:27

@BetterThanKleenex

Yet another court case about trans people with no representation from trans people.

I really hope this doesn't let Marion off the hook.

This had nothing to do with any transperson.

No transpeople were involved because it was not a case about them.

When her tribunal is re-run maybe the trans individual/s who started the case would like to stand up and have their say, in public. They should, nobody should fear telling their own truth!

CharlieParley · 10/06/2021 13:29

@purpleboy

https://mobile.twitter.com/davidpaisley/status/1402922818749206530?s=21

David has a different take on it of course.

Astonishing to read the comments underneath that.

Here's what the judgement means:

A new tribunal to again look at whether Maya was discriminated against by her employer on the basis of her belief that sex matters.

Here's what the commenters believe it means:

A new tribunal to again look at whether Maya's colleagues were discriminated against by Maya on the basis of her belief that sex matters.

Rhannion · 10/06/2021 13:30

@BetterThanKleenex

Yet another court case about trans people with no representation from trans people.

I really hope this doesn't let Marion off the hook.

What are you talking about?
PearPickingPorky · 10/06/2021 13:30

I am on page 7 of the judgment and I'm already pissed off at the ridiculous level of pandering it's doing Hmm If only the same consideration was ever given to women.

Anyway, right result, however we got there.

Nodal · 10/06/2021 13:30

@BetterThanKleenex

Yet another court case about trans people with no representation from trans people.

I really hope this doesn't let Marion off the hook.

Shows a fundamental misunderstanding of this case. This was nothing to do with anything to do with transgender people. It was to do with the interaction of the Equalities Act and sex being a protected characteristic and hence you can't be dismissed for saying that you don't believe people can change their sex. Which most reasonable trans people themselves would also agree with. It's nothing to do with gender identity or trans rights - which are exactly the same for trans people as they are for women - and all covered by the same parts of UK law.
RedDogsBeg · 10/06/2021 13:34

@BetterThanKleenex

Yet another court case about trans people with no representation from trans people.

I really hope this doesn't let Marion off the hook.

Yet again a complete misunderstanding of what this case was about, I am wondering how to manage to do this all the time BetterThanKleenex? It does neither you nor trans people any favours to throw out trite comments like this, it merely serves to highlight your lack of knowledge, ability to understand and how completely blinkered you are.

Had you taken the time to read up on what this case was about and why the appeal was held you may well have noted that a transwoman appeared in the original Employment Tribunal in support of Maya and this fact was also included in the Judgement on this Appeal.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/06/2021 13:34

Yet another court case about trans people with no representation from trans people.

It was presided over by a judge. Do you understand how courts work?

Leafstamp · 10/06/2021 13:34

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Well quite right, they should be free from discrimination and harassment. GC views are not about harassing people because they are trans.

Exactly, as Joanna Cherry pointed out on the Today programme this morning. This is about gender critical (mostly) women being protected from discrimination, harassment or victimisation simply on the grounds of expressing their belief that sex matters and women are biologically female.

Indeed. Although an increasing number of gay men are realising that gender ideology is not great for them either.

And, of course there are the straight men that know the scientific fact that men cannot literally become women and vice versa. These guys do not like being told they can't state their belief either.

AlfonsoTheMango · 10/06/2021 13:36

I am so happy for Maya.

FannyCann · 10/06/2021 13:37

*Its great, but, dear God, how has it come to this?

Its 2021 and we are celebrating that that women are legally allowed to say women are of the female sex and that matters?

It also makes Keir Starmer's ' we will allow self-ID' look like even more of a ' FUCK YOU' to women given as he timed that announcement to pre-empt Maya's judgement.

All these institutions and governments around the world should ashamed of themselves that it has come to this.*

Totally agree @Notyours

Leafstamp · 10/06/2021 13:37

@BetterThanKleenex

Yet another court case about trans people with no representation from trans people.

I really hope this doesn't let Marion off the hook.

Do you lawyers who represent disabled people have to be disabled themselves?!
SnoopsCaliforniaRoll · 10/06/2021 13:38

Congratulations!!!! ThanksThanksThanks

cornflakegirl · 10/06/2021 13:39

Thank you Maya.

Palladin · 10/06/2021 13:43

Modern day heroine!

Whatsnewpussyhat · 10/06/2021 13:47

Yay! You are amazing Maya.

Summerfun54321 · 10/06/2021 13:47

Well done Maya and thank you for protecting our freedom of speech 👏🏻

DifficultBloodyWoman · 10/06/2021 13:50

@BetterThanKleenex

Yet another court case about trans people with no representation from trans people.

I really hope this doesn't let Marion off the hook.

It wasn’t about trans people.

Not everything is about trans people!

It was about a woman.

A woman who lost her job because of her belief that sex matters.

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