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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article

733 replies

RedthroatedCaracara · 06/06/2021 11:20

because all females need to be aware of this

And there's no need to have an attack of the vapours because it's a Daily Mail link. For all their multitude of shortcomings, the Mail at least have the guts to publish articles that stand up for women and girls.

OP posts:
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lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 19:01

The word women and girls is not mentioned in the leaflet. Some women and girls may not have the comprehension or language ability to know that they are a 'female registered with the GP'.

You obviously don't think this is an issue and that's your prerogative. I am telling you that it is an issue and a very worrying one for women and girls with language difficulties.

If you think my behaviour is horrible for pointing this out to you then so be it. I find your attitude to those with disabilities or those who do not have English as their first language appalling.

lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 19:02

Sorry should say those with learning and language disabilities.

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 19:05

@lifeturnsonadime

The word women and girls is not mentioned in the leaflet. Some women and girls may not have the comprehension or language ability to know that they are a 'female registered with the GP'.

You obviously don't think this is an issue and that's your prerogative. I am telling you that it is an issue and a very worrying one for women and girls with language difficulties.

If you think my behaviour is horrible for pointing this out to you then so be it. I find your attitude to those with disabilities or those who do not have English as their first language appalling.

More emotional blackmail:

I find your attitude to those with disabilities or those who do not have English as their first language appalling.

I’ve already said that tweet is poorly worded. Female is a word for woman, I don’t think it means anything less than ‘woman’, I don’t think anyone will be basing their entire medical history on the back of one tweet by one charity linked to another one charity and be, at that point, confused by the word ‘female’. And I don’t think you do either - remember, the NHS uses women, mother, maternity and all the others. Which leads me back to ‘this is not a widespread problem’.

Warmduscher · 07/06/2021 19:14

I’m really shocked at how you’ve gone on and on at the mother of an autistic child, trying to trip her up and wear her down when it’s clear that this is a personal and emotional issue for her, whereas for you it’s just a constant dismissive refrain of “not a widespread problem - nothing to see here”.

I wonder how many disenfranchised women it will take before you consider it worthy of your concern.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 07/06/2021 19:22

I don't have a link, but either here or on Twitter I recently saw a thread from a woman who asked to see her NHS records (using Freedom of Information?) and found that her gender was recorded as female but her sex was left blank. This was in spite of the fact that she had given birth several times, and had NHS records of her obstetric care. This is not supposed to happen, as the NHS has a protocol that says sex should always be recorded, but clearly that's got muddled in practice.

The result is that many transwomen will be registered as female with their GP and many transmen will be registered as male, leading to all sorts of issues with getting invitations to the right kind of screening.

So that's another problem with language, to go with all the obvious ones for people who don't have English as a first language and people with learning difficulties.

Datun · 07/06/2021 19:23

Pumper. I get it. You don't think it's a problem.

The House of Lords reinserting the word mother, at the last minute, in a bill about maternity rights, (for MPs!!), Freddie McConnell being backed by one of most expensive lawfirms in the country, who is on their third court case, to get the word father enshrined in law as someone who gives birth, the examples on here of people with autism, the cervical cancer charity, the smear test researchers, the Welsh whatever it was, the fact that J. K. Rowling was vilified to the point of insanity for objecting to women being called menstruaters, personal experience of workplace policy on this very thread.

And you continue to say it's not enough. Whilst women are standing there with their arms outstretched holding back the tide, you're complaining - not that it's happening, but it's not happening enough. Enough to warrant concern.

When a very normal person, whose job is journalism, is backed by the most expensive lawyers this country can buy, to the tune of being on their third court case, to get the word father enshrined in law to mean someone who gives birth, you shouldn't just be concerned, you should be petrified.

If you can't see that the concept of woman is being erased, linguistically and politically, then it's because you refuse to look.

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 19:34

@Datun

Pumper. I get it. You don't think it's a problem.

The House of Lords reinserting the word mother, at the last minute, in a bill about maternity rights, (for MPs!!), Freddie McConnell being backed by one of most expensive lawfirms in the country, who is on their third court case, to get the word father enshrined in law as someone who gives birth, the examples on here of people with autism, the cervical cancer charity, the smear test researchers, the Welsh whatever it was, the fact that J. K. Rowling was vilified to the point of insanity for objecting to women being called menstruaters, personal experience of workplace policy on this very thread.

And you continue to say it's not enough. Whilst women are standing there with their arms outstretched holding back the tide, you're complaining - not that it's happening, but it's not happening enough. Enough to warrant concern.

When a very normal person, whose job is journalism, is backed by the most expensive lawyers this country can buy, to the tune of being on their third court case, to get the word father enshrined in law to mean someone who gives birth, you shouldn't just be concerned, you should be petrified.

If you can't see that the concept of woman is being erased, linguistically and politically, then it's because you refuse to look.

Datum, I don’t know how many times we’re going to have to go over the same ground. I’m completely open to my mind being changed, if you can provide me clear widespread evidence that the word ‘mother’ is being erased, I’ll believe it.
Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 19:38

@Warmduscher

I’m really shocked at how you’ve gone on and on at the mother of an autistic child, trying to trip her up and wear her down when it’s clear that this is a personal and emotional issue for her, whereas for you it’s just a constant dismissive refrain of “not a widespread problem - nothing to see here”.

I wonder how many disenfranchised women it will take before you consider it worthy of your concern.

I’d say I’ve considered it more than most. I’ve provided pages and pages of screenshots by this point, I’ve looked into every google search I’ve sneeringly been told to look at, I’ve read and read and read and I still have not seen any evidence that the word ‘mother’ is being erased.

I’d say that poster brought their daughter into the argument, which was probably a mistake if they were so quick to misinterpret a post in response.

lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 19:40

The wording is 'female registered with a GP'.

Shall I explain how that might be a problem for an autistic woman.

An young autistic woman might not have personally registered with a GP therefore she might not think that this applies to her because of her literal way of thinking.

If it said woman between the ages of ..... she would KNOW it applies to her.

You have no idea about autism.

Stop minimising.

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 19:43

@lifeturnsonadime

The wording is 'female registered with a GP'.

Shall I explain how that might be a problem for an autistic woman.

An young autistic woman might not have personally registered with a GP therefore she might not think that this applies to her because of her literal way of thinking.

If it said woman between the ages of ..... she would KNOW it applies to her.

You have no idea about autism.

Stop minimising.

You seem very, very sure of your ability to speak for every autistic woman.
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 07/06/2021 19:43

Frankly, as an autistic woman, one charity, nominally set up to serve people like me, dehumanising me on twitter, is one too many.

And I will not be budging on this point, thank you very much. I saw that in my news feed by pure chance and I am still flipping annoyed by their insolence.

lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 19:44

@Warmduscher

I’m really shocked at how you’ve gone on and on at the mother of an autistic child, trying to trip her up and wear her down when it’s clear that this is a personal and emotional issue for her, whereas for you it’s just a constant dismissive refrain of “not a widespread problem - nothing to see here”.

I wonder how many disenfranchised women it will take before you consider it worthy of your concern.

Thank you Warmdscher

I'm used to having to fight for the world to be made equal for my daughter and also for my son who is also autistic.

It's frustrating when people refuse to see how this might make life even harder for people with autism or other language difficulties.

Datun · 07/06/2021 19:45

Datum, I don’t know how many times we’re going to have to go over the same ground. I’m completely open to my mind being changed, if you can provide me clear widespread evidence that the word ‘mother’ is being erased, I’ll believe it.

I'm not really bothered what you believe. It's not you I'm talking to.

MarshaBradyo · 07/06/2021 19:46

And I will not be budging

Me either, I’m not putting up with even one incident of describing me by my body parts, men don’t have it why should I? and I’m really pleased to see the tide turn wrt Stonewall - being dropped by companies and organisations.

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 19:46

It's frustrating when people refuse to see how this might make life even harder for people with autism or other language difficulties.

I explicitly said the wording was poor. It’s the bit you didn’t highlight when you decided to misinterpret my post, which I see you’re still choosing to do.

lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 19:46

You seem very, very sure of your ability to speak for every autistic woman.

I have no idea what your problem is with me, I have said that this will not impact all autistic women and specified that my daughter also has learning difficulties that don't apply to all autistic people.

Are you suggesting that if some autistic women won't find this an issue it doesn't count?

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 19:47

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Frankly, as an autistic woman, one charity, nominally set up to serve people like me, dehumanising me on twitter, is one too many.

And I will not be budging on this point, thank you very much. I saw that in my news feed by pure chance and I am still flipping annoyed by their insolence.

One too many, fine. Widespread though?
Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 19:48

@lifeturnsonadime

You seem very, very sure of your ability to speak for every autistic woman.

I have no idea what your problem is with me, I have said that this will not impact all autistic women and specified that my daughter also has learning difficulties that don't apply to all autistic people.

Are you suggesting that if some autistic women won't find this an issue it doesn't count?

My problem is your insistence I’m happy to see autistic woman die of cervical cancer, and that you haven’t apologised for accusing me of saying that. In fact, you’re replying to posters repeating something I categorically did not say.
Warmduscher · 07/06/2021 19:50

I’d say I’ve considered it more than most. I’ve provided pages and pages of screenshots by this point, I’ve looked into every google search I’ve sneeringly been told to look at, I’ve read and read and read and I still have not seen any evidence that the word ‘mother’ is being erased.

You haven’t seen it. Or you’re not seeing it.

lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 19:50

You said the language on the tweet was poor and said it won't have a huge impact.

I have taken offence, as is my right, to your suggesting it doesn't have a huge impact because the section of society that it may very well have a huge impact on are already disadvantaged.

It is not your place to judge what the impact of the tweet and the leaflet that still doesn't name women and girls might be.

lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 19:52

And you haven't apologised to me either for suggesting that it doesn't have a huge impact. It does. For women and girls like my daughter.

If you really cared about their health you would acknowledge that. But you persist in telling me I'm wrong.

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 19:52

@Warmduscher

I’d say I’ve considered it more than most. I’ve provided pages and pages of screenshots by this point, I’ve looked into every google search I’ve sneeringly been told to look at, I’ve read and read and read and I still have not seen any evidence that the word ‘mother’ is being erased.

You haven’t seen it. Or you’re not seeing it.

Show me then.
Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 19:54

@lifeturnsonadime

And you haven't apologised to me either for suggesting that it doesn't have a huge impact. It does. For women and girls like my daughter.

If you really cared about their health you would acknowledge that. But you persist in telling me I'm wrong.

Such offensive bullshit, and I’m not listening to any more of it. It’s a pathetic response because you couldn’t back up your opinion with any actual evidence and had to go down the emotional blackmail route. Completely unfair and uncalled for.
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 07/06/2021 19:55

Vulva people may also experience pain during intercourse and bleeding between periods

twitter.com/ExploreSexTalk/status/1320156260377919491?s=19

"What to expect in your 30s

For vulva owners, the 30s might as well be called the Do It All decade.

It’s a time when many vulva owners are trying to build a career, sustain a (or many) romantic relationship(s), be a parent, spend time with friends, and more. Because the entire endocrine system is connected, when your cortisol levels surge, it can throw your sex hormones out of whack. That’s why this can be a decade of sky-high stress and ground-low libido, especiallyfor new parents."

feminapt.com/media-content/heather-jeffcoat-at-healthline/healthline-hey-vulva-owners-your-sexual-peak-may-last-longer-than-you-think

lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 19:55

I have told you why autistic women like my daughter won't know this applies to them and you don't care.

You have said it is one tweet and will not have a huge impact.

I am not in the wrong here and have nothing to apologise to you for.

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