If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article

[RedthroatedCaracara]

because all females need to be aware of this

And there's no need to have an attack of the vapours because it's a Daily Mail link. For all their multitude of shortcomings, the Mail at least have the guts to publish articles that stand up for women and girls.

Language masters because now posters say "people with a cervix need to get smear tests". My son actually asked me if he had a cervix, he was thinking cervical like spine. The lovely foreign lady that lives opposite my sister and doesn't speak more than 15 words of English words wouldn't recognise ANY of those words but the word woman is one that she would know applied to her.

I don't think chest feeding is reductive enough. Maybe we should change it and call it people feeding. Or just feeding. God forbid somebody uses breast feeding as the perfectly accurate description for the fear of offending the 10-20 people that are so delicate that words are literal violence.

I don’t think it’s happening. And I think there’s more important things to worry about than what vegans feed their children and how low cut Davina McCall’s dress is.

Well it is happening. Whether you think it is or not. And yes there are more important things to worry about than vegans and dresses. Women's safeguards and legal protections are certainly something to worry about. Luckily the hard work women have put in to roll this back will have a positive impact on all women and children. Even if some refuse to believe there's a problem. 🤷

@Erikrie

I don’t think it’s happening. And I think there’s more important things to worry about than what vegans feed their children and how low cut Davina McCall’s dress is.

Well it is happening. Whether you think it is or not. And yes there are more important things to worry about than vegans and dresses. Women's safeguards and legal protections are certainly something to worry about. Luckily the hard work women have put in to roll this back will have a positive impact on all women and children. Even if some refuse to believe there's a problem. 🤷

Got any evidence that every midwife in Britain is now banned from using the word ‘mother’?

There's a good reason many avoid the feminist section

This thread is one of them.

Sarah Vine doesn't give a flying fuck about women or anyone else. And nope, I'm not "having an attack of the vapours" because i'm not going to click a Mail link. I am not going to contribute to that rag which treats women as fodder for it's celeb bashing canon.

"females" what is she a Ferengi? She means women.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/06/stonewall-risks-all-it-has-fought-for-in-accusing-those-who-disagree-with-it-of-hate-speech

Interesting article here. Not by Sarah Vine.

This thread is one of them

Gosh yes, concerns about women's safeguards is so hateful isn't it. 🙄

the Mail at least have the guts to publish articles that stand up for women and girls.

Oh yes the side bar of shame is a fabulous example of a site that stands up for women.

there are plenty of people writing about their concerns for the language used around women's issues and have genuine concern.

And then their is Sarah Vine who will write any old shit for money. She cares about Sarah Vine and Michael Gove and not much else.

@Ifimight

the Mail at least have the guts to publish articles that stand up for women and girls.

Oh yes the side bar of shame is a fabulous example of a site that stands up for women.

You don’t even have to flick your eyes over, in the exact same Sarah Vine article she’s slagging Davina McCall and Amanda Holden off for having low cut dresses on. ‘Stay classy ladies’ is the exact quote, I think.

Amazing. Let's make it all about Sarah Vine rather than about the real problem of what is happening to women and girls. 🙄

But that’s my point. I don’t know any organisations or people who have changed the language they use. I read about it, but I don’t experience it. So how prevalent is it really?

Well, between having my son and becoming pregnant again, my local Trust has apparently taken the time to remove the word mother from every page of the maternity section on its website. It now refers to “pregnant people”.

I was also banned from my local Maternity Voices Facebook page for objecting to their use of “pregnant people”.

Particularly irritating is Davina McCall, left, who says she is engaged in a 'plunge-off' with Amanda Holden for who wears the lowest cut dress. Stay classy, ladies!

Tbf I think Sarah Vine has a point here but others are free to disagree. Likewise her comments about Malala Yousafzai appearing on the cover of Vogue.

That fearless critic of Islam, Ed Husain, claims some Muslim clerics openly practise sharia law and believe allowing women out of the house leads to 'tragedy and misfortune'. Depressing evidence that a small minority live as if it were 9th Century Kabul, not 21st Century Britain

Agree with this too.

And she was commenting on a report about the physical effects veganism can have on young children. Is that not allowed?

I'm a long term on again off again vegan and, like I said, don't want to live in an echo chamber. Do you?

@Erikrie

Amazing. Let's make it all about Sarah Vine rather than about the real problem of what is happening to women and girls. 🙄

I’ll just repeat the question you haven’t answered:

Got any evidence that every midwife in Britain is now banned from using the word ‘mother’?

@Erikrie

Amazing. Let's make it all about Sarah Vine rather than about the real problem of what is happening to women and girls. 🙄

Yes, sorry, I got drawn in

@RedthroatedCaracara

Particularly irritating is Davina McCall, left, who says she is engaged in a 'plunge-off' with Amanda Holden for who wears the lowest cut dress. Stay classy, ladies!

Tbf I think Sarah Vine has a point here but others are free to disagree. Likewise her comments about Malala Yousafzai appearing on the cover of Vogue.

That fearless critic of Islam, Ed Husain, claims some Muslim clerics openly practise sharia law and believe allowing women out of the house leads to 'tragedy and misfortune'. Depressing evidence that a small minority live as if it were 9th Century Kabul, not 21st Century Britain

Agree with this too.

And she was commenting on a report about the physical effects veganism can have on young children. Is that not allowed?

I'm a long term on again off again vegan and, like I said, don't want to live in an echo chamber. Do you?

Sorry, what’s her point about McCall’s dress?

@AngeloMysterioso

But that’s my point. I don’t know any organisations or people who have changed the language they use. I read about it, but I don’t experience it. So how prevalent is it really?

Well, between having my son and becoming pregnant again, my local Trust has apparently taken the time to remove the word mother from every page of the maternity section on its website. It now refers to “pregnant people”.

I was also banned from my local Maternity Voices Facebook page for objecting to their use of “pregnant people”.

I don’t see that example as particularly problematic: trans men are biologically female and as such need the same protections and provisions as women, but often choose not to access services where they would have to acknowledge their female body. If inclusive language encourages them to access a service and keep themselves well, what’s unfeminist about that? Isn’t that ensuring that a group of people who are female but don’t consider themselves women, aren’t marginalised? The opposite of trampling on women?

Thank you for sharing. I agree. Words matter.

I’ll just repeat the question you haven’t answered

That's pretty aggressive. If you want this information then there's plenty of links on the feminist section. But I suspect you don't want it at all. You just want me to collect information and lay it at your feet for you to pick it apart disapprovingly. Sorry, but I don't intend to spend my Sunday collecting information for someone who is arguing in bad faith.
It makes no odds to me if you believe it or not. There are plenty of people who are genuinely interested. And you clearly are not one of them.
Hope this helps :-)

If inclusive language encourages them to access a service and keep themselves well, what’s unfeminist about that? Isn’t that ensuring that a group of people who are female but don’t consider themselves women, aren’t marginalised? The opposite of trampling on women?

If transmen wish to leave womanhood then that's fine. They don't get to remove the words that women use to describe themselves on their way out though. The term woman and mother are important to me as someone who is both of those things. It is to many many women. Rather than removing those words, why not just have women and transmen. Surely that is more inclusive. For everyone.

@Erikrie

I’ll just repeat the question you haven’t answered

That's pretty aggressive. If you want this information then there's plenty of links on the feminist section. But I suspect you don't want it at all. You just want me to collect information and lay it at your feet for you to pick it apart disapprovingly. Sorry, but I don't intend to spend my Sunday collecting information for someone who is arguing in bad faith.
It makes no odds to me if you believe it or not. There are plenty of people who are genuinely interested. And you clearly are not one of them.
Hope this helps :-)

No sure, you’ve convinced yourself it’s happening because Sarah Vine said so and that’s good enough for you. Never mind there’s no actual real-life evidence of every midwife being shot at dawn for saying the word ‘mother’.

Seeking an echo chamber is exactly what you’re doing. You’re turning a blind eye to the absolute atrocities peddled by that excuse for a newspaper because on this particular issue, you share the same prejudice.

No sure, you’ve convinced yourself it’s happening because Sarah Vine said so and that’s good enough for you. Never mind there’s no actual real-life evidence of every midwife being shot at dawn for saying the word ‘mother’.

No, I'm convinced it's happening because I've been campaigning for women's rights solidly for the last 5 years. Ever since I noticed that women's rights were being rolled back.

Anyway, I'm not engaging with you anymore. I'm not getting much out of the experience tbh. Even if you are. 🤷

@ComtesseDeSpair

Genuine question. I read a lot about this on MN, but how much of an issue is it really in the actual world? I don’t live in the sticks with limited contact with the modern world, I live in London. I work for a very large, liberal organisation, I move in several very “woke” and liberal social circles, including the Burning Man crowd and kink scene, I’m vaguely acquainted with a handful of trans people, I hang out at Bar Wotever and The Glory sometimes. And I have honestly never heard anyone ever refer to chest feeding, or person who has given birth, or lady penis; or chastise people for using perfectly normal terminology. I’m thinking of some of the “rightest on” people I know, and they certainly wouldn’t say chest feeding. Is it just such a prominent issue on MN because so many posters have teenage DC who, like teenagers everywhere throughout all time, like to glue themselves to a cause and an idealogy and so their parents, the MN posters who have to listen to their DC’s beliefs, think it’s everywhere when it isn’t?

With the reports of stonewall trying to muscle in and influence ofsted ratings of primary schools who weren't teaching their preferred agenda, I think these issues are extremely important to wider society.

Really couldn't care less about this. Non issue. I am a mother and will continue to call myself that. Doesn't affect me in the least if other terms exist too.