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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article

733 replies

RedthroatedCaracara · 06/06/2021 11:20

because all females need to be aware of this

And there's no need to have an attack of the vapours because it's a Daily Mail link. For all their multitude of shortcomings, the Mail at least have the guts to publish articles that stand up for women and girls.

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Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 17:00

@Datun

I absolutely agree that transwomen shouldn’t be in female prisons. The two aren’t connected because nobody of any note is refusing to use the word ‘woman’.

You don't see the connection between woman meaning violent male sex offender when it can mean putting males in women's prisons, and a charity that replaces woman with cervix haver so it's not a necessary criterion for males who identify as women?

It's exactly the same agenda.

Putting males in female prisons is the extreme end of the spectrum that starts with redefining the word woman.

The only reason it doesn't feel like that, is because it's far rarer. It doesn't make it not the extreme end.

Anyway, I think I've explained this sufficiently, for anyone else reading this thread.

What's happened is that mainstream media is reporting on a move that would affect every single person, almost immediately. Unlike prisons.

That was stonewalls mistake.

Going after the word mother.

Woman was clearly being replaced all over the shop. People are far more emotionally invested in the word mother. (And, by extension, father).

It immediately affects everyone. You don't have to be put in prison, or a rape refuge, or play sport.

Hence the outrage.

And yes, this is very much something that is being pushed. Look at the Freddie McConnell case, going all the way to the Supreme Court. A legal, fully funded case, with one of the most expensive London lawfirms, that wants to eliminate the entire concept of mother and have it replaced with the gender identity of father.

The case is still ongoing, I believe. But Freddie wants to, quite literally, make the word father mean human who gives birth.

Legally. Set in stone.

Minimising it doesn't work, I'm afraid.

You don't see the connection between woman meaning violent male sex offender when it can mean putting males in women's prisons, and a charity that replaces woman with cervix haver so it's not a necessary criterion for males who identify as women?

No, I don’t. I might, if there were huge organisations like the NHS or Cancer Research or Wikipedia who point-blank refused to say the words ‘women’ or ‘mother’ but that’s not true. I’m not sure how many times I can say this.

Datun · 07/06/2021 17:04

Anyway, I think I've explained this sufficiently, for anyone else reading this thread.

florentini · 07/06/2021 17:06

@Datun just de-lurking to say, indeed you have.

Quaggars · 07/06/2021 17:07

Well, that's us all told then Grin

florentini · 07/06/2021 17:09

let's hope so Grin

Erikrie · 07/06/2021 17:10

Anyway, I think I've explained this sufficiently, for anyone else reading this thread.

Yes you have. And it's important to reach the many people that just read this without responding. This is how change happens. As we have already started to see.

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 17:17

@Datun

Anyway, I think I've explained this sufficiently, for anyone else reading this thread.
Probably, for anyone who already thinks it’s true.

But probably not for everyone else who thinks ‘is the word mother being erased anywhere?’ and the answer is ‘yes: on the welsh HR policy document, on the LLL USA specifically (not UK or international though) and on the Twitter feed for Guernsey.

But not the NHS website or Wikipedia or Cancer Research or the National Breastfeeding Network or the Scottish citizens advice bureau or on any.gov.uk site or the others I provided screenshots of.

lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 17:29

But what about all the tweets pumper, can you genuinely not see a health issue for an autism charity tweeting that autistics with cervixes need to step forward for smears.

I think you are in complete denial that this is happening, for reasons I can't fathom.

If my daughter saw that tweet she wouldn't know that applies to her!

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 17:31

@lifeturnsonadime

But what about all the tweets pumper, can you genuinely not see a health issue for an autism charity tweeting that autistics with cervixes need to step forward for smears.

I think you are in complete denial that this is happening, for reasons I can't fathom.

If my daughter saw that tweet she wouldn't know that applies to her!

I’ve already said, I’m not denying it’s happening. I’m denying it’s a widespread problem, because it isn’t. Did you find out the name of that charity?
lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 17:55

Yes it was the one that tweeted, linked upthread Autistic UK, twitter.com/AutisticUK/status/1351183014760509448

The tweet links to Jo's Trust charity which states that you will be invited for a smear if you are of relevant age and 'registered as a female with your GP'.
www.jostrust.org.uk/shop/cervical-screening-and-cervical-abnormalities/download-only-mini-factsheet-cervical-screening

There is another plain english leaflet which mentions women but this is not at all good enough for people with Learning difficulties who have to navigate to find out whether it applies to them.

My daughter is lucky because I will support her, the same can't be said for all autistic women and girls. It's not only dehumanising it's downright dangerous.

lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 18:13

Sorry to be clear not all autistic people have learning difficulties but my daughter does.

However as Autism is a communication disorder the need for clear language remains.

somethinginoffensive · 07/06/2021 18:19

I’m denying it’s a widespread problem

Never heard of prevention being better than cure? Why would we all just passively wait until many people have been harmed?

How many women need to miss smear tests before it's a problem?

How many men to win women's sports prizes?

How many young women damaged by testosterone and double mastectomies?

It's been too many already!

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 18:24

@lifeturnsonadime

Yes it was the one that tweeted, linked upthread Autistic UK, twitter.com/AutisticUK/status/1351183014760509448

The tweet links to Jo's Trust charity which states that you will be invited for a smear if you are of relevant age and 'registered as a female with your GP'.
www.jostrust.org.uk/shop/cervical-screening-and-cervical-abnormalities/download-only-mini-factsheet-cervical-screening

There is another plain english leaflet which mentions women but this is not at all good enough for people with Learning difficulties who have to navigate to find out whether it applies to them.

My daughter is lucky because I will support her, the same can't be said for all autistic women and girls. It's not only dehumanising it's downright dangerous.

I completely see your point, and I appreciate how language changing must impact your daughter. I also appreciate that other people with autism may not have parents around them to help them navigate issues like this. That charity should have known better.

But I do feel like I have to point out again, I’m not arguing it’s not happening at all. I’m saying it’s not happening in a way that impacts in any huge way, it’s not a widespread issue. That one autism charity should know better, but what about all the other autism charities, are they all doing the same thing?

mollythemeerkat · 07/06/2021 18:25

@Datun

Anyway, I think I've explained this sufficiently, for anyone else reading this thread.
Yes you have and honestly anyone who doesnt see this as a problem IMO isnt awake and conscious.
lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 18:30

I’m saying it’s not happening in a way that impacts in any huge way,

That's nice! So if a girl with autism misses her smear and ends up with cervical cancer that's not a huge impact. Wow! Just Wow!

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 18:33

@lifeturnsonadime

I’m saying it’s not happening in a way that impacts in any huge way,

That's nice! So if a girl with autism misses her smear and ends up with cervical cancer that's not a huge impact. Wow! Just Wow!

@lifeturnsonadime I really tried to post a reply as sensitively as possible but the immediate jump to emotional blackmail really isn’t a good look. It’s one autism charity, it’s one you couldn’t even remember the name of. I really think you’re pinning too much of your argument on that one tweet.
Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 18:33

@lifeturnsonadime

I’m saying it’s not happening in a way that impacts in any huge way,

That's nice! So if a girl with autism misses her smear and ends up with cervical cancer that's not a huge impact. Wow! Just Wow!

And on the jump to emotional blackmail, why end that cut and paste there?
lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 18:38

What jump to emotional blackmail are you talking about Pumper lets be clear you keep telling you there is no impact, I'm telling you that there is and that impact could cause autistic women and girls to miss essential health screening and you are minimising that.

To me that's just awful. I'm sorry it's unforgivable that you think that it is not a 'huge impact'.

It is a sensitive subject for me, you are right. I'm really upset by your attitude.

lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 18:39

And as for the cut & paste the problem doesn't have to be widespread to cause a 'huge issue' for disadvantages members of society.

You keep saying it does. You are wrong.

lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 18:41

Apologies for the typos I'm so angry. This is people like my daughter you are talking about. They already are made to feel that they don't fit in and now inappropriate language isn't a 'huge issue' even if it could kill them.

Awful.

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 18:44

@lifeturnsonadime

What jump to emotional blackmail are you talking about Pumper lets be clear you keep telling you there is no impact, I'm telling you that there is and that impact could cause autistic women and girls to miss essential health screening and you are minimising that.

To me that's just awful. I'm sorry it's unforgivable that you think that it is not a 'huge impact'.

It is a sensitive subject for me, you are right. I'm really upset by your attitude.

This emotional blackmail:

That's nice! So if a girl with autism misses her smear and ends up with cervical cancer that's not a huge impact. Wow! Just Wow!

When that is so patently not what I said. I said:

it’s not a widespread issue. That one autism charity should know better, but what about all the other autism charities, are they all doing the same thing?

And a quick reminder: you couldn’t even remember the name of that charity earlier in the thread, how important is it to you?

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 18:46

@lifeturnsonadime

Apologies for the typos I'm so angry. This is people like my daughter you are talking about. They already are made to feel that they don't fit in and now inappropriate language isn't a 'huge issue' even if it could kill them.

Awful.

I’m angry too. You’ve deliberately misinterpreted what I said, for your own agenda. I was very clear in highlight the issue of that one particular charity, who sent out one poorly worded tweet and you’re pretending I said people with autism who miss their smears and die of cervical cancer are not a big deal. It’s bullshit and its unfair.
lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 18:47

But if an autistic person follows that one charity then that is the message they are getting isn't it.

Why are you so intent on minimising the problem pumper?

I couldn't remember which autism charity it was but I have no idea why that is relevant. Jo's Trust can't even name women in the linked leaflet.

This doesn't only impact women with language & learning difficulties it's women with English as a second language or poor English.

Jo's Trust is the go- to charity for cervical cancer and they don't say the word woman in the leaflet! What more evidence of language erasure do you need?

lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 18:49

It isn't one charity it's Jo's Trust too.

Everyone is giving you examples and you don't seem to care about the fact that there is a genuine risk that women could miss vital healthcare.

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 18:56

@lifeturnsonadime

It isn't one charity it's Jo's Trust too.

Everyone is giving you examples and you don't seem to care about the fact that there is a genuine risk that women could miss vital healthcare.

Jo’s Trust says female! ‘If registered female with your gp’ I believe was the exact quote.

I could just as easily ask you why you’re maximising this problem, and why you have to resort to emotional blackmail and cropping quotes to discredit my very valid point. Horrible behaviour.