Best responses for being asked for pronouns in person

[Seraphinite]

I’m going to a residential training course (not UK) and I suspect they will ask us for pronouns when we introduce ourselves on day one. (I’ve been to something with this organization before and have seen it)

What are some good responses I can give? Is saying ‘I prefer not to say’ best?

I don’t want to draw attention to it, be adversarial or open up discussion, I just don’t want to answer.

(For avoidance of doubt, I don’t buy in to gender ideology so that’s why I don’t want to answer. To me, stating my pronouns indicates I think it’s an ok question to ask in the first place )

@IntermittentParps

"I think pronouns are wank" That's my favourite.

If you'd rather people call you "um" or "thingy" or "them overthere" then by all means withhold that information. That's what given names are for, no?

"Ah, this is Lucy, Lucy works in HR, Lucy is our fundraising lead and Lucy is also famous in the office for Lucy's baking skills, Lucy makes an amazing brownie, let me tell you, Lucy really is the best. Let me just leave you getting to know Lucy and I'll catch up with you and Lucy later."

Sounds a bit weird doesn't it? Pronouns function so we don't have to keep saying someone's name over and over, multiple times in a sentence. I mean, if you want to talk about people and have them talk about you in a weird, unnatural, stilted way, by all means refuse to confirm that Lucy is fine with being called she, but it's making things awkward for yourself and other people for no real reason, let's be honest.

@WestendVBroadway

What's the big deal? Just say what your bloody pronouns are, and move along ffs!

I am sorry if my previous comment offended anyone who feels sensitive about sharing their preferred pronouns. I am just feed up of people who make a mockery of those who may be non-binary and prefer the use of they/them. Most many people on this thread only seem to be complaining about having to announce their pronouns because they are not considering the feelings of those who identify as they/them and seem to think that pronouns are obviously based merely on looks.

Westend if people want to announce it that’s fine. I haven’t had issues with people getting mine wrong so didn’t agree with the ‘thingy’ statement, but moreover I don’t want to announce my pronoun. That should be accepted.

@IntermittentParps

what harm does it do just to say "my pronouns are she/her What harm does it do to not say this?

I recently had a similar conversation with a person of my acquaintance. The context was workplaces where people put their pronouns on their email sign-off. He thinks that stating your pronouns if you're someone like me or him (plain old woman and man, she/her and he/him) acknowledges that you are privileged not to have to and shows you're an ally to those who do have to.

Personally I think if you want/need to give pronouns please do; but I don't feel the need to.

Exactly. So if I don't consider myself to be privileged and don't consider myself an ally, why should I do this. What harm does it cause?

The harm it causes is if you're the one person in the group who does have to specify their pronouns because it really isn't obvious from your physical appearance then it's potentially more embarrassing and awkward for that person, and draws attention to them and might make them feel singled out.

That person may be trans, or they may not be.

Why not sing all the pronouns, Mr Menno's song covers all bases?

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DXetogrd3n4Y&ved=2ahUKEwjNgsbFy4PxAhVIA2MBHYxnDboQwqsBegQIBxAG&usg=AOvVaw1536P1oLZ3DMldAPqdYhyH" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DXetogrd3n4Y&ved=2ahUKEwjNgsbFy4PxAhVIA2MBHYxnDboQwqsBegQIBxAG&usg=AOvVaw1536P1oLZ3DMldAPqdYhyH

I'd love to try 'I don't have any pronouns. Please don't refer to me in any way.'

In my line of work, I might say something like 'well, as an editor, I prefer to use all of them.'

@LurcherLot why would people be confused what to call her?

We've reached 2021 without being permanently mystified about how to refer to people

Trying to remember them all is not trivial.

The practicalities of it are tricky to say the least.

I really struggle with names and faces let alone anything else.

If you're in a work meet with people you've never met before do you need to look them all up on the intranet first?

Does each meeting need to start with pronouns for anyone new?

If it's people around the world including were this isn't a thing, do you need to explain at the start of a meet or send out an email beforehand explaining?

Genuinely it's going to be tricky in a lot of circs.

I suppose that's why some things have pronoun badges. Which like name badges if you're female means people glancing at your chest all the time to check...! And no putting it somewhere else doesn't work..

I'd be more than happy with they/ them for everyone becoming the norm. Easy and no faffing or remembering.

Eg

I agree with the point the first speaker made when they said blah blah.

If you use they them for everyone then that's ok isn't it?

I might start doing that tbh.

@JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff

You could also just say "second person singular, thanks!" with a breezy smile and leave them to admit they don't actually understand how pronouns work......

My favorite!!

@NiceGerbil

Eg

I agree with the point the first speaker made when they said blah blah.

If you use they them for everyone then that's ok isn't it?

I might start doing that tbh.

I asked my husband why he always says they when talking about people at work.

He says it's just a company culture thing, plus it's a male dominated industry and he doesn't want women to be perceived or treated differently when it's not necessary for anyone to know their sex.

@LurcherLot

Pronouns aren't gender ideology, they're grammar. You've used pronouns in virtually every sentence of your response to me. I've used 5 pronouns so far in this comment.

Yes, they are. So we should just stick to the grammatically correct pronouns in each language. English has a designated pronoun for each sex.

As you say, pronouns aren't gender ideology. Like all ideologies and religions, adherents can come together to practice and profess their ideological beliefs. Not expect the time of non adherents in everyday life to be wasted on something that is not objective fact or mainstream.

[quote Bazoo23]@LurcherLot why would people be confused what to call her?

We've reached 2021 without being permanently mystified about how to refer to people[/quote]
No, actually, we've reached 2021 with quite a few people having to either always correct people or having to put up with others getting it wrong. Again, just because it's not something you've experienced personally, doesn't mean it doesn't happen to others.

And that's kind of the point actually - this thread is clearly full of people who can't imagine their pronouns being anything but totally obvious, and scoffing with laughter at the very idea that some people might actually find they frequently need to specify or correct people. You don't seem able to look past your own experience and have any empathy or compassion for anyone else's. Some of you seem downright offended by the suggestion that you could consider any experience but your own. Some of you are suggesting responses for OP which I hope for her own sake she will ignore because they'd make her sound downright rude, hostile or ignorant in front of her colleagues.

And again, I'm not just talking about trans people, other people who are GNC in presentation or who have certain physical characteristics which get read wrongly also find themselves in the same boat.

As I've said before if you don't want to state your pronouns, don't. It's unlikely to be a big deal, highly unlikely anyone will make you or care (as long as you don't make it a big deal by making a memorably stupid remark). But it's ridiculous to make out pronouns are some kind of ideological bogeyman - all it's about is making introductions a little bit smoother for people who often don't find they go smoothly.

@DdraigGoch

"Personally I prefer to refer to myself as 'I', though most other people refer to me as 'you', so that will probably suffice."

Oh that's perfect!

Id say "i don't understand the question"

You don't seem able to look past your own experience and have any empathy or compassion for anyone else's

Then again those that want to force it aren’t trying very hard to understand that it makes some people uncomfortable doing so.

Actually I find the pronoun thing quite offensive

I don't like to be reminded that I am female
I don't see myself as any different to the men in the room
I have never been offended by being referred to as a male which often happens with people from different countries before I meet them irl

Yet denying my femaleness seems also wrong. It's factual
If I deny my femaleness must I give up all sex based rights even though I will still face sex based discrimination?

Marsha, no one in this thread is trying to force it, no one at any meeting I've ever been to where people were asked to share pronouns has forced it, there's no evidence this event of OP's is going to force it. You seem to be fighting a straw man.

@LurcherLot

Marsha, no one in this thread is trying to force it, no one at any meeting I've ever been to where people were asked to share pronouns has forced it, there's no evidence this event of OP's is going to force it. You seem to be fighting a straw man.

Why do long posts on how people can see past their own experiences?

You’re telling people they don’t care enough about discomfort or will be called thingy. When neither is true.

You’ll just have to accept your discomfort doesn’t trump other people’s. And not go on about not having compassion.

@LurcherLot

Yes, Marsha, I've had people get my pronouns wrong, I have a physically androgynous appearance coupled with a gender non-conforming presentation. Just because it's never happened to you, doesn't mean it's never happened.

As I've stated clearly several times now I don't think anyone should have to announce their pronouns if they don't want to. But I also don't think it's half the big deal some of you are making out to either just say "I'd rather not" or to just bloomin' well say them, since I'm willing to bet most of you actually would be a bit put out if someone got them persistently wrong. What's the worst that could happen, someone in a different situation to you actually might feel a bit more comfortable in the group? Oh no the horror.

So, why does this bother you? People make assumptions about others all the time and get things wrong. You know full well that the majority of English speakers use he/him/his when referring to a male and she/her/hers when referring to a female. Because you are choosing to identify differently or because you may look a certain way, wouldn't that just be expected for most people to first guess your sex and use the appropriate terms? If people get it wrong, it's not because they are jerks, it's because those are social cues we all know about. You can see sex as well as the rest of us.

@StellaAndCrow

"I think pronouns are wank"

Oh, come on, want/wank is so out of date.

My pronouns are fuck/off.

all it's about is making introductions a little bit smoother for people who often don't find they go smoothly

The exact opposite has occurred. Now, introductions are incredibly awkward and tense.

I'm confused now. A minute ago Lurcher said pronouns are just grammar (when people intimated that they don't want to be compelled to replace those which are grammatically correct).

However, others using the grammatically correct pronouns are now something people shouldn't have to put up with.

Some very good points made outside of it feeling like compelled participation in an ideological profession. Thus making many feel very uncomfortable.

1. Extra difficulty for people who are not fluent.
2. Is not inclusive of neurologically diverse people who take things literally.
3. Fronting and drawing attention to pronouns may disadvantage women, however they identify.

@LurcherLot pronouns are just grammar if you let people pick which ones they use, it's compelled speech if someone control how you refer to them when they are not even present. Also it's a barrier for people who aren't comfortable in English. It's a barrier for neurodiverse people. And research shows use of pronouns makes a more hostile working environment for women. So this pronoun announcement is not harmless in any way

“ You've used pronouns in virtually every sentence of your response to me. I've used 5 pronouns so far in this comment.”

Neither of you needed to check pronouns before constructing your sentences.
So why is it necessary to state pronouns?
A fairy does not die every time someone used “he” instead of “she”.