Best responses for being asked for pronouns in person

[Seraphinite]

I’m going to a residential training course (not UK) and I suspect they will ask us for pronouns when we introduce ourselves on day one. (I’ve been to something with this organization before and have seen it)

What are some good responses I can give? Is saying ‘I prefer not to say’ best?

I don’t want to draw attention to it, be adversarial or open up discussion, I just don’t want to answer.

(For avoidance of doubt, I don’t buy in to gender ideology so that’s why I don’t want to answer. To me, stating my pronouns indicates I think it’s an ok question to ask in the first place )

I'd say she/her, but that I don't get offended by they/them.

Not claiming it is the ‘best’ response but I just always say please use my actual name if I am in the meeting and anything you like to refer to me outside it.

What's the big deal? Just say what your bloody pronouns are, and move along ffs!

The big deal is that someone, unknown to all, might be sitting in that meeting in agonies of anxiety, fearing they are going to be 'outed' by having to express their innermost feelings.

Going round the group demanding people's pronouns in turn is unkind and insensitive. It's like the poor kid with the speech impediment or dyslexia dreading their turn to read aloud in class. We don't do that to people.

@WestendVBroadway

What's the big deal? Just say what your bloody pronouns are, and move along ffs!

Not if you don’t subscribe to the ideology

Why should you be forced to join in?

Anyone should opt out if they want to

@WestendVBroadway

What's the big deal? Just say what your bloody pronouns are, and move along ffs!

The big deal is that people need to be respected if they do not wish to answer this. It's personal and intrusive and has nothing to do with the training.

Can I ask, why do you need to know?

I'm thinking of choosing we/us if I'm ever made to declare, makes as much sense to me as they/ them.

And Westend, if everyone breezily gives he/him/his or she/her/hers to match their sex and presentation, how "inclusive" is it for the person who is going to stick out like a sore thumb if they say something different? Even if they say nothing, it leaves them exposed. The more people who question the need for putting pronouns in their work bio or email sign-off the better for those who are non-conforming and questioning.

They might arrive at the point where they're confident to announce "It's zhi, zhir and zhim for me, thank you!" and police it rigourously, but until they reach that point (and after!) they need respect, not coercion.

I did O levels - I don't even know what a pronoun is.

I genuinely feel somewhat unsafe in settings where this happens. I know this sounds like the kind of hyperbole we expect from some people who believe in gender identity, but all the police reports, doxxing, bomb threats, violent threats, punches, rape threats, violent images and slogans, attempts to prevent meeting, blocking inside buildings, threatening in stairwells, silencing on social media, intimidation of employers, smoke bombs, costumes with dicks on etc etc have been carried out against mainly women by people who believe in gender ID. Often using the threat and presence of male bodies against us, with all that entails.

I have seen the relief in a room when the first person asked deflects the pronoun question. It liberates the others who do not wish to say. And what could I, honestly, say? I've raised my kids as gender neutral as possible. They don't correct strangers who "missgender" them because they don't think it's an insult or particularly important half of the time. If you ask my pronouns, I don't have any, because I know you are referring to gender ID not sex. I try to live ethically and kindly. Lying feels extremely wrong.

As transsexual my opinion FWIW is this:

Pronouns should NEVER be compelled. There cannot ever be consequences for refusing to do so. It is not a right but a privilege to receive a pronoun.

I have spoken to many women over the years and seldom has there been an issue when there has been a freedom to choose.

From my position I wouldn't want to be a recipient of compelled speech.

This is really useful. I'm starting a new job soon in a new department with 18 of us starting together. I can quite imagine being asked this as part of the training: I think I'm going with:

"I dont have a gender identity; my pronouns are sex-based."

Hopefully there wouldn't be a follow up.

It really is silly isn't it. It's virtue signalling. I mean most names are male or female names and if I decided to socially transition to make, I'd choose a name that was obviously male, then if I didn't "pass" as male, my name when I introduce myself would make it clear to everyone that I wished to identify as male. No need for this pronoun stating at all.

I mean transition to male, not make 🙄

Even so, I do like the analysis that my pronouns are not in fact mine at all, but belong to the speaker - they are part of their language, their grammar, so id say "oh, whatever makes sense to you is fine with me" - I think its a genuine response that's hard to take negatively.

A very horrified and insulted 'Isn't it obvious' and a glare....

@chrysanthemum5 I think you've cracked it! Bookmarked and screenshot saved

I always go with “Luckily I have no preferred pronouns, but I do worry about forcing people to either out or misgender themselves when pronouns have to be stated.” Throw in a pained expression of super-extra-wokeness at how unwoke and thoughtless they’ve been by asking.

You won't need pronouns if you use my name.

A good tip anyway.

@WestendVBroadway

What's the big deal? Just say what your bloody pronouns are, and move along ffs!

Imagine a situation where you are regularly asked your religion at the start of every meeting. You are an atheist but saying that will get you into trouble with your employer who is firmly in the “everyone believes in God” camp and could see you summoned for a chat with HR. If you say “atheist” one of the believers in the room may also lodge a formal complaint with HR about you not showing respect for their religious belief and feeling unsafe in your presence, triggering an investigation. Or it will get back to your boss and be a black mark against you at your next appraisal or promotion review. Not such an innocent practice now, is it? Sadly this is the reality for many GC women with Stonewalled employers.

Pronouns aren't an ideology, for crying out loud, they're a part of speech. All it does is tell people how they should refer to you when talking about you in the third person, it's helpful for the same reason it's helpful to let people know what your name is, so they know what to call you when they talk to you or about you. If you'd rather people call you "um" or "thingy" or "them overthere" then by all means withhold that information, but it's your own life you're making awkward at the end of the day.

Those of you pretending you object to stating pronouns because you care about closeted trans people when you've never had a kind or sympathetic word to say about trans people in your life, you're fooling no one.

And those of you telling OP he should claim or imply that he is a closeted trans person, you're not only proposing he claim to be representing a group he is not a part of, which is dishonest and disingenuous, you're also potentially setting him up for awkwardness or trouble in his workplace down the line, if people make wrong assumptions as a result, or discover his dishonesty.

OP, if you don't want to say your pronouns, just don't. Just give your name and move on, and it's unlikely anyone will push you any further. If they do, just firmly say "I'd rather not" (though be prepared for some people to be confused as to what to call you as a result).

@LurcherLot

Pronouns aren't an ideology, for crying out loud, they're a part of speech. All it does is tell people how they should refer to you when talking about you in the third person, it's helpful for the same reason it's helpful to let people know what your name is, so they know what to call you when they talk to you or about you. If you'd rather people call you "um" or "thingy" or "them overthere" then by all means withhold that information, but it's your own life you're making awkward at the end of the day.

Those of you pretending you object to stating pronouns because you care about closeted trans people when you've never had a kind or sympathetic word to say about trans people in your life, you're fooling no one.

And those of you telling OP he should claim or imply that he is a closeted trans person, you're not only proposing he claim to be representing a group he is not a part of, which is dishonest and disingenuous, you're also potentially setting him up for awkwardness or trouble in his workplace down the line, if people make wrong assumptions as a result, or discover his dishonesty.

OP, if you don't want to say your pronouns, just don't. Just give your name and move on, and it's unlikely anyone will push you any further. If they do, just firmly say "I'd rather not" (though be prepared for some people to be confused as to what to call you as a result).

That you have to announce it is part of gender ideology. It’s not something we’ve always done is it? Why is that? I’ve never had an issue with people saying ‘thingy’, have you? seriously that is a non issue for most, unless you’ve had that happen?

You go ahead if you wish.

Those that don’t want to can opt out.

I don’t see why you wouod get so exercised by people not wanting to do the same as you.

(though be prepared for some people to be confused as to what to call you as a result).

I wonder how we managed all these hundreds of years with people being confused as to what to call us

My pronouns hehe

Pronouns aren't gender ideology, they're grammar. You've used pronouns in virtually every sentence of your response to me. I've used 5 pronouns so far in this comment.

@LurcherLot

Pronouns aren't gender ideology, they're grammar. You've used pronouns in virtually every sentence of your response to me. I've used 5 pronouns so far in this comment.

Having to declare them in a meeting us a new thing, do you agree or not?

Have people been calling you thingy when you didn’t do this?