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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ofsted have left Stonewall

219 replies

PatsArrow · 05/06/2021 07:33

Apologies, I don't have a Telegraph subscription so can't read the full article but the bones of it from Twitter are that Ofsted have LEFT Stonewall.

Hopefully this is the beginning on the end of the gender ideology in our schools.

twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1401058196127686658?s=21

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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MsFannySqueers · 05/06/2021 10:33

Excellent news!

YetAnotherSpartacus · 05/06/2021 10:41

This is wonderful news!

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 05/06/2021 10:44

There are more organisations who left listed here (with the links to the relevant document in preceding posts on that thread) - but note that the Uni. of Bedfordshire has not left despite their FOIA response:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4257620-Organisations-Leaving-Stonewall-The-List?msgid=107857876

ChristinaXYZ · 05/06/2021 10:46

@FannyCann

Not sure if this link will work. The Telegraph currently has an offer of £1 a week for six months. They seem to do a lot of good deals. I was given a one year free subscription thanks to NHS offers at the start of Covid and then got a very cheap renewal deal. Anyway this is their latest offer.

[[http://m.email3.telegraph.co.uk/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40PxSwmhRXTQj9vJigeJG3CDUPXtXYUH08JfDRTM7jdCQ%3D&WT.mc]]id=eeDM1437522&WT.tsrc=email&etype=LoyDiggAcqFrii4Dto7D&utmsource=email&utmmedium=LoyyDigAcqqFri4Dto7D20210604&utmmcampaign=DM1437522

They are covering the issues re Stonewall etc really well at the Telegraph. I took out a cheap intro offer nearly a year ago and then kept it going because the coverage was so much better than elsewhere. Plus I felt they deserved the pennies for doing so much sunlight shining when others (looking at you BBC) are so useless.
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 05/06/2021 11:04

In retrospect this is an interesting read:
www.gov.uk/government/speeches/amanda-spielman-at-stonewall

But as we know from many controversies of the past and of the present, the important rights we have established, and that we protect, are not in reality completely separable from each other. The exercise of one right can sometimes be seen as limiting of another right. The different protected characteristics can and do bump into each other. Many of the other rights are stoutly defended, just as Stonewall defends LGBT rights.

And Ofsted’s position, as the checking mechanism of equality, means we are obliged to make decisions in situations where the different protected characteristics are colliding. This is even more difficult where there are competing claims of individual rights, parental rights and group rights.
...
And we are an increasingly diverse country. Multi-cultural, multi-racial, increasingly socially liberal in many parts of society, but not in others. And the laws of this country, embodied in the Equality Act, are designed to ensure that we give equal weight to many of the facets of difference, the nine ‘protected characteristics’.

And that point about ‘equal weight’ matters. There is no hierarchy in the law. One characteristic does not have primacy over another. And here’s the rub. When voices are raised in argument, it can result in what I’ve previously called ‘cause wars’ as in, ‘my protected characteristic should be more protected than yours’.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/06/2021 11:13

Thanks for that ItsAllGoingToBeFine That's a very clear statement that Ofsted understand the issue of competing characteristics and this is the inevitable outcome.
As was said on another thread - this could have been so different had Stonewall and the other trans groups not employed the tactics of #nodebate, intimidating and silencing all questions and challenges, alongside a determination to eradicate anything woman related - like the word mother fgs.
Unadulterated arrogance and overreach.

Tanith · 05/06/2021 11:36

There seem to be a few of these LGBT+ Award schemes around:

www.allsortsyouth.org.uk/training-advice-schools/lgbt-inclusivity-awards

First year of membership for the Rainbow Flag award costs nearly £500 and it's a year long registration process, including training and addressing all aspects, including curriculum.

PurpleWh1teGreen · 05/06/2021 11:40

Wow this is becoming an avalanche. At last.

These organisations knew the Emperor was naked all along. What a shame no one wanted to be the first to say out loud. Well now, no one wants to be last.

Beamur · 05/06/2021 11:46

Whilst I am relieved that the juggernaut of the misleading information appears to be slowing down and hopefully the very real harm that was levering in schools and workplaces will now be looked at more carefully, I am also disappointed that a credible and reputable charity has basically used it's huge positive influence in such a negative way.
Overreach, insidious techniques and misinformation.
The real shame being they could have used that status and a reward scheme to do so much better. Serious mission creep.

FannyCann · 05/06/2021 11:51

First year of membership for the Rainbow Flag award costs nearly £500 and it's a year long registration process, including training and addressing all aspects, including curriculum.

It's really shocking as collectively all these awards cost a fortune in time and money and mean there's less time and money for other projects deserving of support.

FannyCann · 05/06/2021 11:57

Seems like companies and schools can save themselves a whole stack of money by ditching Stonewall and just getting on with things using their own common sense and decency and existing laws. With the added bonus of not getting sued in the future by women or kids they've damaged.

Yes, I saw it said somewhere that all of these issues could be covered by one simple edict "Play nicely children" (applied to adults as well as children).

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/06/2021 12:06

Tanith
Do you remember Glencoats Primary School? The school who decided that the drag queen "Flowjob" was just the right person to represent LGBT issues and read to little children:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8038669/Furious-parents-slam-primary-school-drag-queen-Flowjob-read-pupils-young-four.html

They signed up to this LGBT Schools Charter award:

blogs.glowscotland.org.uk/re/public/glencoatsprimary/uploads/sites/2371/2019/10/LGBT-Schools-Charter-Standards-e-use-003.pdf

It's very revealing the level of influence on education policy and practice that the charter demands - including of course the mixed sex changing and toilets and additional resources to train primary teachers in trans issues.

Significant demands of time, £££, pupil and adult time.

Tanith · 05/06/2021 12:15

MrsOvertonsWindow I remember the drag queen debacle, but didn’t know they’d signed up to an award scheme.

It’s shocking, isn’t it? Schools struggling to make ends meet: why did they feel they must pay out and work through these schemes?
What other stuff have they signed up to?

The scheme is obviously how Stonewall has made an awful lot of money.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 05/06/2021 12:17

@FannyCann

Seems like companies and schools can save themselves a whole stack of money by ditching Stonewall and just getting on with things using their own common sense and decency and existing laws. With the added bonus of not getting sued in the future by women or kids they've damaged.

Yes, I saw it said somewhere that all of these issues could be covered by one simple edict "Play nicely children" (applied to adults as well as children).

However, where something isn't explicitly prohibited then too many people in the past used that as an argument for them 'not to have known not to do it'. I'm just reflecting that in my earlier career I was stalked and sexually harassed by senior staff: stalking was not a crime/offence at that time and the phrase and meaning of "sexual harassment" is more recent than many people realise.

Stalking/harassment: www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/stalking-and-harassment

Sexual harassment at work - technical paper but lays out the history of why there was a need to name the phenomenon in order to take action about it:

Unlike our example of a person with a condition for which medical science does not yet have the proper diagnosis, what women like Carmita Wood had to contend with at work was no plain epistemic bad luck, for it was no accident that their experience had been falling down the hermeneutical cracks. As they struggled in isolation to make proper sense of their various experiences of harassment, the whole engine of collective social meaning was effectively geared to keeping these obscured experiences out of sight. Her unequal hermeneutical participation is the deeper reason why Carmita Wood’s cognitive disablement constitutes an injustice…

It did not harm the interestsof Carmita Wood’s harasser that he (as the example goes) did not have a proper grasp of the nature of his treatment of her; but it harmed Carmita Wood a great deal that she could not make adequate sense of it to herself, let alone to others. The asymmetry arises from the concrete social and practical context in which the collective hermeneutical impoverishment impinges. It is only when the collective impoverishment is concretely situated in specific social situations that it comes to be especially and unjustly disadvantageous to some groups and not others. Hermeneutical lacunas are like holes in the ozone—it’s the people who live under them that get burned.

www.sheffield.ac.uk/polopoly_fs/1.152343!/file/3.1fricker.pdf

I admire the crafting of that last sentence: Hermeneutical lacunas are like holes in the ozone—it’s the people who live under them that get burned.

Beeeeeeeeeeeeeep · 05/06/2021 12:21

@merrymouse

Freddie then decided to have a baby. That poor baby.

I disagree strongly with Freddie’s views and campaigning on gender, which I think are regressive and harmful to women. However I have no reason to believe that the baby isn’t loved and well cared for.

Sure, apart from being gaslit by its own mother birthing parent
HerewardTheWoke · 05/06/2021 12:39

This is one of the most important FOIs yet.

It shows definitively that Stonewall uses the Champions scheme to reach inside public policy - that it doesn't just confine the scope of the scheme's influence to organisational HR policies.

The CPS guidance judicial review failed because the judge thought that the Champions scheme's influence was limited to the CPS as an employer, not it's public functions. We can see now that was a wrong assumption to make.

This is the thing that's going to kill Stonewall inside public bodies. It's over.

BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted · 05/06/2021 12:45

I suspect Freddie’s baby will be OK, being raised by its grandparents, rather than Freddie them self. I find it very odd indeed why Freddie bothered to have a baby at all. I’m sure Freddie’s parents must be delighted to have another generation to raise

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 05/06/2021 12:48

The CPS guidance judicial review failed because the judge thought that the Champions scheme's influence was limited to the CPS as an employer, not it's public functions. We can see now that was a wrong assumption to make.

Are there sufficient grounds for revisiting such assumptions and judicial reviews? In the light of such interference can some organisations be asked to disclose their correspondence?

FemaleAndLearning · 05/06/2021 12:49

@PreservativeFree

I work in a school that supports Stonewall. I have to wear rainbow colours in this month! I've tried a couple of times to explain that it might not be a good idea and the reaction is always that I must be a bigot who doesn't support inclusion.

I know I should be able to put a decent argument together, but I've really struggled. Can anyone point me in the direction of a really straightforward summary of what the objections are?

I'd say the main one is that they consistently and persistently misrepresent the Equality Act 2010. They omit sex and replace it with gender or gender identity. It should be sex and gender reassignment. Words matter.
SofiaMichelle · 05/06/2021 12:51

Oh this really is some good news!

A big 'Fuck you!', Stonewall. 🖕🏻

RainbowBriteUk · 05/06/2021 12:53

Stonewall paved the way for lgbt+ rights and recognition. Why is everyone up in arms? Genuinely curious not being goady.

heathspeedwell · 05/06/2021 12:55

I think we all agree that Stonewall was once a good charity. But even some of its own founders have now publicly stated that it has lost its way.

Datun · 05/06/2021 12:58

@RainbowBriteUk

Stonewall paved the way for lgbt+ rights and recognition. Why is everyone up in arms? Genuinely curious not being goady.
Partly because transgender rights conflict with those of L, G, and B people.

You can't combat the discrimination faced by, say, lesbians, if those lesbians can be a male and a female in a relationship, or even two males.

Congressdingo · 05/06/2021 13:00

Oh reading this has made my day.
Fabulous news, well done to all of us who wrote and spoke and did things (man friday/sticker woman etc)
I just wrote a lot, not as brave as some.

FemaleAndLearning · 05/06/2021 13:04

Fantastic news. Let's get some commonsense back into schools. Well done all those women putting in FOIs to shed light on this.