Response to men’s creepiness

[Undersnatch]

Joined a neighbourhood app yesterday and by today I have a private message from a man commenting that he noticed where I live and asking questions about it. Other people had said hello, welcome on the timeline but he felt the need to send a private message.

It’s a long time since I had unwanted male attention really and got me thinking about various things. I feel like I want to call it out, give feedback - a la ‘it’s creepy to get a message from a stranger commenting on where I live’. But then that self doubt of, is it? Is my barometer off because I’ve had my share of shit male behaviour over the years?

DH initially felt sorry for him when I said I may respond directly and wondered if he may have a learning disability . It’s the be kind thing innit? Don’t be direct in saying ‘you are making me uncomfortable’. But the guy now knows my face and street name. So maybe it is too risky to be direct?

I could just leave and chalk it up to experience.

What do you think?

Can you just block him? It is likely just a lack of social awareness but you have no obligation to "be kind".

Secondly, why is the app sharing your actual address? Is it possible to turn that off?

I could just block but that’s what my query is I suppose, I kind of feel like there is a wider social conversation about male harassment of women and part of me wants to call that out where I see it. It just fucks me off that men behave like this basically. No woman who was a stranger to me would private message like this.

It’s an app for community relations/support. Doesn’t give house number but gives street, you can’t turn that off but can restrict how widely your profile is seen to just close neighbours. It’s possibly just a bad idea!

It is creepy. Trust your feelings. I'd not respond but I wouldn't ditch the app unless I wasn't particularly bothered about keeping it. I wouldn't be forced off it by this creepy behaviour.

I'd find it creepy too. Many stories about women being pestered by men after signing up to local FB neighbourhood groups.

It's very creepy! Trust your instincts.

You could do any of

Ignore.

Say something on the group. Hi Dave I think you DMd me by accident! No worries. Then say you asked about this and that, answer is blah. You will have made your point and alerted the group.

How big is the group? If small then let the admin know although not sure what they'd do! I probably wouldn't do that.

The old invoke another man move. Thanks for your message my DH is better placed to answer it so he'll be in touch.

Say I'm not sure why you've PMd me please don't do it again.

Anyway. Your DH response is classic.

Most people have a knee jerk minimise/ make excuses etc.

No criticism of your husband. He's doing what 99% of people do.

I don't usually like the invoke a man thing but that one does appeal to me on this. Get your DH to be REALLY FRIENDLY and also really boring.

I suppose totally ignoring him would be the easiest way to get the message across, but then again, I've had the same kinds of experiences and know lots of others who have.

I got pestered by friendly messages from a man on a depression support website.
Nothing untoward, but I wasn't there to have cosy one to one chats with anyone, male or female.

It’s so stressful. I have no advice; just commiserations. I really resent having to deal with this kind of thing and I wish you didn’t have to.

Yes it's creepy and you have every right to tell him firmly not to PM you.

Your dh doesn't see it as creepy because most men are utterly blind to creepiness, even if it happens under their nose. They have no idea what it feels like being on the receiving end.

Probably creepy. Even if he does have a learning disability doesn't mean he can't be creepy. I hate when people make excuses like that. I've also heard same thing when like an older let's say 70 something year old man is creepy. People will just say no he's a senior he's just being friendly or early dementia. It's just all ridiculous. Creepy is creepy.

As far as what you should do. I don't know its really up to you and what you feel comfortable with. I don't think anyone else can tell you what appropriate response is for you.

@PuertoVallarta

It’s so stressful. I have no advice; just commiserations. I really resent having to deal with this kind of thing and I wish you didn’t have to.

I think that’s why I posted - it’s the feeling of resentment. It feels like a long while since I had to deal with crap like this but I suppose it brings back what it was like being a young woman where it felt fairly constant and there is anger about that. I’m asking myself if as an older woman can I handle this more assertively, or will that bring me more problems? But then kind of naively hoping that if I gave him some feedback then he may realise and stop doing it to other women.

And yes DH - he did think it was creepy too, we chatted about it and I said all I am saying here. He was not telling me not to but I could see to some degree he was coming from a place of empathy for a stupid man who doesn’t know how to communicate with women. He is less inclined for confrontation than me really so it’s more informed by that. But he joked about beating him up too so there are those uncomfortable sex stereotypes around as well.

I’m just reflecting now though that I’m taking far too much responsibility for this aren’t I - as if I have the power to stop this kind of behaviour from men. It’s all so depressing. I’m thinking about how would I teach my young daughters to respond. They will need to know and I hate that.

It is creepy OP, even if its unintentional. And you are perfectly entitled to feel angry and resentful at (a) it happening at all when surely men should be more aware of this stuff by now and (b) feeling you have to deal with it without making yourself more vulnerable or 'making a scene' . It's the same old, same old. Woman enters public space, creepy guy takes it as invitation to be creepy.
I like NiceGerbil's suggestion of a reply on the group casually flagging up the 'accidental' DM so others and the admin are aware. Maybe creepy guy has form for this.
I was invited to join a neighbourhood group like this a few months ago. It seemed like a good idea in lockdown so I did. I went for the maximum privacy settings and I was surprised and unnerved when my street name appeared under my real life name in the joining announcement. It was quickly apparent the group was mostly used by people for pointless rants in capitals or thinly disguised advertising. I quickly decided I wasn't prepared to scroll through the rants, thinly veiled racism and put up with the lack of privacy on the off-chance there might be some useful nugget of neighbourly information. I left after less than a day and gave a full explanation of my reasons to the admin in the comments box.

Definitely comment on it in the group like Gerbil said. Best way, no hiding place. Others might have had a similar experience and be keeping quiet.

Woman enters public space, creepy guy takes it as invitation to be creepy.

Woman calls it out and it's minimised as the is told to #BeKind.

Woman doesn't call it out and it's taken as acceptance of that overture and that she invited anything that happens afterwards.

Definitely in the Rules of Misogyny - women are responsible for what men do.

I've heard about this before - men being total creeps on Next Door.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4209189-Do-creepy-men-hang-out-on-Nextdoor-app

Agree with the suggestion to publish it to the group.

You are absolutely right that his behaviour is not your responsibility.... But, as PP have indicated, it is yet another example of how males behave towards females in public space. Males get away with this because their multiple physical and structural advantages usually make complaint (Karen!) pointless or impossible. So we accept it. And we become so used to accepting stuff like this. I think the structure of this particular group gives you a unique and safe way to do something small about it,which will hopefully mean you feel you can let it go.

[quote FricasseeTurnips]I've heard about this before - men being total creeps on Next Door.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4209189-Do-creepy-men-hang-out-on-Nextdoor-app[/quote]
All the men who used to make obscene phone calls have found a new, cheaper, and easier mode of communication.

Its creepy, report him to admin.

I'm in a group for my disability. The admin has been banned from the group, because he only set it up to creep on women

Ahhh. It is Nextdoor. Thanks all for the encouragement. I am now tempted by putting a group post on, given there are likely other women who have experienced it too, and maybe start a local conversation about it, but nervous too.

Your point about doing something to help me let it go, is a good one, Pale. Recently I didn’t challenge a racist taxi driver as I felt a little afraid of him and I felt shit for days. This feels like a bit of a test of whether I am a grown up or not!

Good for you, OP!
It feels bloody amazing when you do stand up to this stuff. I'm doing it more and more. Menopause helps!

Just another note of caution about Nextdoor. They make it very difficult to leave. I thought I'd deleted my account but it turns out it was just 'deactivated' and they still have all my data. Lots of people complaining about this on Trustpilot.

Another vote for NiceGerbil's suggestion of "I assume the PM was an accident" in public. (A sort of version of "Does anyone own this hand? I found it on my arse" for public transport gropers).

If you feel he's over stepped a boundary then there is nothing wrong in saying his behaviour is inappropriate and that you are blocking him. I joined a bunch of meetup groups at the weekend and had my first message from some guy wishing he attended an event with me at the weekend. I mean wtf - he's been told it's inappropriate and wierd to message me unsolicited, and that he's been blocked. And I've also reported him to Meet up. It's my pleasure to highlight to men what is and isn't appropriate. I'm single and now in my forties, but this took me back to being single in my twenties when I had to push back with a clear sense of my boundaries, as men didn't seem to have any then either.

Is this the new NextDoor app/website? I think the idea is to connect neighbours and talk about local topics, but given they are people who may well know you and where you live there is an extra element of risk.

If he's just sent that one PM and nothing else maybe give him the benefit of the doubt that he is just trying to be friendly, but lacks the social skills to be aware of how that can come across?

He needs to know it isn't friendly and is unwanted. Finding out it's inappropriate is good learning for him.

@Undersnatch

Joined a neighbourhood app yesterday and by today I have a private message from a man commenting that he noticed where I live and asking questions about it. Other people had said hello, welcome on the timeline but he felt the need to send a private message.

It’s a long time since I had unwanted male attention really and got me thinking about various things. I feel like I want to call it out, give feedback - a la ‘it’s creepy to get a message from a stranger commenting on where I live’. But then that self doubt of, is it? Is my barometer off because I’ve had my share of shit male behaviour over the years?

DH initially felt sorry for him when I said I may respond directly and wondered if he may have a learning disability . It’s the be kind thing innit? Don’t be direct in saying ‘you are making me uncomfortable’. But the guy now knows my face and street name. So maybe it is too risky to be direct?

I could just leave and chalk it up to experience.

What do you think?

[Man here]. Please don't bite my head off. This post really does emphasize how insanely different men and women are, IMHO. I am stuck between 100% accepting a woman's perspective of what is creepy, and the following -

(1) The app - why on earth does it not give your location on a map to within - say - 1/4 mile? Why on earth does it name your street? Why on earth are you on a site that gives this personal information away to all and sundry?

(2) I take the view that if you are on an app that allows strangers to send you personal messages then you are open to personal messages from strangers. Likewise if you're walking in the street you might find yourself approached by strangers. Now obviously a polite man will - say - avoid approaching a lone woman at night in a quiet place because that is obviously highly likely to be intimidating. Obviously a man should speak from 2 metres away and not get right in your face. Obviously he should accept your lack of interest in any sort of communication if you are not interested in any sort of communication, and move away promptly to ensure that you don't feel intimidated. But I simply do not buy into the idea that approaching strangers in public is wrong. Obviously if the PM is overtly creepy the man should be reported and hopefully banned. If it is a little creepy then maybe he'll get banned if he's reported two or three times. But the idea that we aren't able to approach people who are in public, in public, or approach people who choose to be on apps with private messaging, via PM, seems nuts.

"a man commenting that he noticed where I live and asking questions about it. " Well, noticing something made public on an app you chose to join is hardly outrageous, and asking questions is hardly outrageous. What were the questions?

When is it appropriate for a man to speak to or communicate with a woman he does not know? Obviously if one or other is working then a short chat as you renew your car insurance is fine. Obviously on dating apps when you get matched? Obviously if the woman approaches the man then the man cannot be criticised? When else can a man speak to a woman he does not know?