Trad wife do we judge?

[LastRoloIsMine]

I watched a Stacey Dooley documentary this evening on Trad wife's. It basically means they are "traditional women". They get married and they see their place in society as stay at home mums who cook clean and cater for the man in their life. The man rules and they follow.

One of the traditional wives who was recently married said "feminisim hurts men. I have a son and feminisim hurts him" it's wrong.
Then there was Lillian who says women are happier when men are happy. She also said she was happiest when she does laundry especially for her husband.
Apparently before her husband she had a good career but now she says his needs come before hers so she gave up work. She had given up her earning capacity and relies solely on her husband.
She now says feminisim is like cancer.
Feminisim is putting women first and that's wrong.

I honestly am so angry watching this.

If that is what they want to do and it makes them happy, then so be it.

I just don't get why they feel the need to take a swipe at wives who want more? They must feel threatened ?

Haven’t watched it, but I do know of Lillian and Felipe, having watched their YouTube channel.
She’s entitled to be wrong and good luck to her. I presume Stacey Dooley pushed back on her views?

I can't agree with feminism hurting men but shouldn't we support other women choosing what makes them happy?. I have a career I love but some of the happiest years in my life were when I was a stay at home mum. Taking care of the house, my kids and my husband made me very content.

Stacey said and I agree
"These are bright smart women who have made a choice. As a feminist I support their choice but at the same time it does not sit well with me"

It doesnt sit well with me either. I have daughters and I tell them constantly a man is not your life he should be an addition. You and he should be functioning adults in your own right.

I found it uncomfortable viewing .
The family had a strong Christian faith (I do not ) which I felt was used to underpin their very patriarchal traditional man/woman dynamic .
Both parents sported beaming smiles throughout but I was drawn to the little girl and her reaction at the end to Stacey Dooley's departure .
She cried . Quietly weeping into her cornflakes . Over the course of just two days the child had been drawn to Dooley - to her light , her spirit and independence .
The mum is a grown woman though and has chosen her own path .
I could not live like that .

Feminism surely has to mean more than supporting women in their choices, no matter what, because women can choose things which are fundamentally antithetical to feminist principles. If you accept that feminism is about freedom from male oppression, or that it has something to do with men and women being treated equally, to pursue a lifestyle where you insist that women are not equal to men and should not be equal to men is just not feminist. Even if they are very happy in their decision, this doesn't mean it's a feminist decision. And I think that's fine. I don't understand this drive to construe every lifestyle choice or belief as 'feminist'. Some women are feminists and some are not.

I have no problem in saying these choices, while freely made, are not feminist choices. To say that 'feminism is a cancer' and to think your husband comes first is profoundly anti feminist. I just hope it works out for them. Relying on another person for security is all well and good, but it can be risky.

shouldn't we support other women choosing what makes them happy?

Happy people don't usually slap out at others all the time.
I also think it's toxically solipsistic, thinking that what's right for you is right for everyone.

Right, but that works both ways no?.

I didn't see the programme but I'm hugely cynical, so I think there's a risk that women in these situations could get well and truly shafted.

People are free to live as they like but it feels like there's something in the past of these women that brings about such a choice to devote themselves to serving men's needs.

It's so removed from the kind of person I am that I find it hard to put myself in their shoes.

I'd like to say that I don't judge them, but actually I do. I judge them, and I pity them. And I pity their dc too.

If they want to be SAHPs and that works best for their family, then that's fair enough - I think that's a perfectly valid choice if both spouses are in agreement. However, I have absolutely no respect for women who choose to make themselves subservient to men.

Yes I judged. The little girl’s sad reaction when Stacey Dooley left said it all. Felipe came across as a prize tool as well - nor did he receive a ringing endorsement for his colleague at the wedding vow reception.

Feminism means advocating for equality for all women, and their rights to live free from the harm of men (to me, anyway). It doesn’t mean unconditionally supporting the choices of every woman. I think it’s completely anti feminist and harmful to the cause that some women choose to live like this.

Well if supporting women in their choices is anti feminist then I'm happy to not be one. No wonder so many women are put off by feminism- we support you but only if you live they way we think you should.

How its not that.
Feminisim is fundamentally breaking down the patriarchy that hurts us. These women not only embrace the patriarchy that keeps women under payed under represented and abused they call feminisim a cancer.
What is it about that you support?

I can support their right to choose but I don't have to agree with it.

No one suggested that it's anti feminist to support women in their choices. But some choices that women make are directly in opposition to feminism, and should not be supported or celebrated just by virtue of the mere fact that they are choices which women happen to make. If feminism cheered 'yay' to every single thing a woman does then it would be meaningless. As an analogy, take gay rights. There are some gay people who think that being gay is terrible and they advocate for conversion therapy. There are 'gay' Mormons who marry women and try to live straight lives because they think being gay is a sin. They would much rather live in a world where being gay is criminalised and very much not encouraged or celebrated at all. The gay rights movement surely can't very well turn round and say 'well, these guys hate being gay and want gay men to go to prison, but that's totally cool! Their choices are valid and part of gay liberation!" Rather, it's accepted that these are gay people who happen to be anti-gay liberation, and their choices are to be pitied from a gay rights perspective.

As a matter of fact, I do support these women's rights to be equals to their husbands even though these women are shitting on feminism and all it stands for. I notice there's a certain prickly sensitivity from anti-feminist women. They rail against feminism and equality until the cows come home, and yet expect their choices to be respected and treated almost with a reverence. if anti feminist women don't care about feminism, then why does it matter so much to them that feminists 'support' their choices?

I don't judge the women. The men who want this subservience, them I judge a lot.

I mean in their choice. The nonsense about feminism is cobblers and I'm happy to judge that!

I I.agine it is easier for women who's husbands are higher earners, to take this stance.

But for women who are born into poorer backgrounds and due to socio-economic issues the 'trad-wife' is a totally different concept.

I support their right to live how they want but I judge those women's choices as foolish. They are not merely SAHP, the surrendered wife thing goes beyond that and is, imo, a fetish. As usual I feel sorry for the kids being dragged into adult fetishes.

I watched and judged. The trad men all looked like the cat that got the cream. The wife came across as a smiling zombie.

I just kept wondering what their lives would be like when the children left home. Would she still be vacuuming and making his dinner? And why?

In my book feminism is a class level thing not about judging individuals.

Arou6 the world women carry out fgm on girls. Support/ encourage 'honour' killings. All sorts of stuff.

There is little point in looking at one woman who is doing xyz for whatever reasons and judging.

In this OP. What is the context. What was the upbringing. What happens if she doesn't toe the line. Etc.

Remember women in the UK thought the suffragettes/suffragists were wrong and women should not have the vote.

Round here there are fundamentalist religious communities where the girls are lesser. One is Christian.

Do I feel sorry for the children, male and female? Yes. And the adults tbh.

Do I judge them as individuals? No. They are operating in a closed and difficult situation.

This applies to everything. Things that seem normal to us (hair removal) to things that seem obscene (breast ironing).

It's about groups, not about individuals. None of us are free from the norms of the society we are born and raised in.

The supporting a woman's right to choose stuff is rubbish sorry.

Feminism is not about individual women doing xyz. Individual choices are irrelevant. If women or men are as a general rule choosing things that hurt women/girls then that's a feminist issue. And it won't change until the underlying attitudes are changed. That is difficult and takes time.

Ditto issues that affect men and boys. No although men often seem to leave that up to women as well.. citing mothers fault etc... Why men don't sort it when they have the power globally is another thread!

So no I don't judge women for behaving in ways that are acceptable/ normal/ encouraged/ imposed in whatever situation they are in.

If they want to do that, then that's fine. To me, feminism is about having that choice.
However it completely lacks something to think that their way is best and that everyone else is wrong.
Also - it's not necessarily traditional to stay in the home. Throughout history, working class women have always worked away from their kids it just wasn't paid as well (or not paid at all). Working classes safely made a majority of the population
I read Laura ingalls (of little house on the prairie) memoirs a while back. Something that really struck me was when she was married, living with her toddler and leaving her unattended because she needed to get the laundry done etc. And generally struggling with it.

Under his eye, aren't we all happier.......

@WeeBisom

No one suggested that it's anti feminist to support women in their choices. But some choices that women make are directly in opposition to feminism, and should not be supported or celebrated just by virtue of the mere fact that they are choices which women happen to make. If feminism cheered 'yay' to every single thing a woman does then it would be meaningless. As an analogy, take gay rights. There are some gay people who think that being gay is terrible and they advocate for conversion therapy. There are 'gay' Mormons who marry women and try to live straight lives because they think being gay is a sin. They would much rather live in a world where being gay is criminalised and very much not encouraged or celebrated at all. The gay rights movement surely can't very well turn round and say 'well, these guys hate being gay and want gay men to go to prison, but that's totally cool! Their choices are valid and part of gay liberation!" Rather, it's accepted that these are gay people who happen to be anti-gay liberation, and their choices are to be pitied from a gay rights perspective.

As a matter of fact, I do support these women's rights to be equals to their husbands even though these women are shitting on feminism and all it stands for. I notice there's a certain prickly sensitivity from anti-feminist women. They rail against feminism and equality until the cows come home, and yet expect their choices to be respected and treated almost with a reverence. if anti feminist women don't care about feminism, then why does it matter so much to them that feminists 'support' their choices?

Great post.