Trad wife do we judge?

[LastRoloIsMine]

I watched a Stacey Dooley documentary this evening on Trad wife's. It basically means they are "traditional women". They get married and they see their place in society as stay at home mums who cook clean and cater for the man in their life. The man rules and they follow.

One of the traditional wives who was recently married said "feminisim hurts men. I have a son and feminisim hurts him" it's wrong.
Then there was Lillian who says women are happier when men are happy. She also said she was happiest when she does laundry especially for her husband.
Apparently before her husband she had a good career but now she says his needs come before hers so she gave up work. She had given up her earning capacity and relies solely on her husband.
She now says feminisim is like cancer.
Feminisim is putting women first and that's wrong.

I honestly am so angry watching this.

As a society we should be offering more financial support for SAH and more support in returning to the workplace afterwards

I disagree that we should be offering financial support for people to SAH. I would far rather see support and incentives that promote flexible working for both parents so that they can share responsibilities more equally between them.

I would like to see more help for SAHPs to return to work though. I know it can be very difficult.

I disagree that we should be offering financial support for people to SAH. I would far rather see support and incentives that promote flexible working for both parents so that they can share responsibilities more equally between them.

100% this

I watched it and wished I hadn't. I don't blame Stacey for not tearing into them as that would have been way too easy and they were waiting for her to do that. I think they were ramping up the red flags, trying to get Stacey to bite. Lillian pretending not to understand when Stacey asked her if she fancied her husband. Saying she loved laundry and she had received a tumble dryer as a Christmas present. It was all a ghastly little show of defiance but I suspect they are enjoying the fame and notoriety and extra income they get from it. Why else would they have a YouTube channel if this is just their normal life and they are happy with it?

I felt desperately sorry for their daughter and also for the little boys who will grow up with a strange view of the world. But I suspect we are all being sold an exaggerated version of what their life is really like.

That would still require offering financial support for (partial) SAH. Because flexible work isn’t as highly paid as full time work. You’re seen as uncommitted and you don’t get promoted or given responsibility. Alternatively we need a MAJOR shift in employer attitudes to part time and flexible work.

moules I’m a TV producer.
It’s literally my job to watch Netflix

Saying she loved laundry and she had received a tumble dryer as a Christmas present
Surely that’s fairly normal? I love laundry because I get a couple of hours without kids climbing on me. DH has to take them away and occupy them because the iron is at toddler face height and it’s too dangerous for them to be around. I can listen to my podcast whilst ironing in peace. And I did get a dishwasher for Christmas once, and it was the best present ever. DH got a mattress that same Christmas.

I haven't watched this yet, but it sounds as though any sons born into this sort of set up are more likely to be exalted over daughters, and treated like mini versions of their father, so their expectations are set as children. The next generation of wives will then have ridiculous expectations on them and the cycle will perpetuate. Its not fair on any children in this sort of set up. That's not the same as saying SAHP are not good, it's the methodology behind the decisions that is different. Most SAHP are doing that and retaining a healthy sense of self worth and independence beyond the husband being the most important figure in the house.

My issue with this is, not her choice to be a trad wife but even in the home she is not considered an equal, She said he is the CEO and he said they do discuss the household needs but he has the overriding decision and it’s tough if she disagrees and she accepted that.

Therefore she is beneath him and they are not equal partners in the home. I fear for the children being home schooled and therefore not open to knowing that this is not the norm and almost a cult mentality.

I'm OK with women doing it as long as they don't insist other women would be happier doing it as well.

I've recorded it to watch this afternoon.

I think personally we have a choice (or if you can afford it you have a choice) and as long as being a housewife/sahm is your choice that's ok. I stayed home with mine because it was best for my kids and suited our lives, and yes my exh's occupation was a factor in my decision.

What concerns me is that others eg pastor's etc are influencing the decision and implying it has a religious reason. Using the decision to stay home as a reason for the man to make decisions for the woman. Men and women should be equal whatever the set up re paid work vs household tasks.

My dp pays the bills now mostly but we share decision making!

I think the whole "trad wife" construct is problematic.

However I also think that to some extent it's a reaction against a lack of any social value given to the homemaker role, or unpaid work generally. If we did a better job of those things maybe there would be less appeal to thinking about it this way.

I tend to admire people who kick against the social consensus in a really unpopular way (as opposed to a way that pretends to be rebellious while asserting something completely mainstream.) So in that sense I think, good for them for asserting that something they think is important is important and giving an FU to the capitalist overlords.

@Lemoine

That would still require offering financial support for (partial) SAH. Because flexible work isn’t as highly paid as full time work. You’re seen as uncommitted and you don’t get promoted or given responsibility. Alternatively we need a MAJOR shift in employer attitudes to part time and flexible work.

I guess that's what I'm arguing for, really. Incentives for employers to support flexible working in order to help shift those attitudes.

It's true that PT staff can be a bit of a PITA for employers - more expensive and more time-consuming for managers. However, I think there is also an argument that people are much more creative and productive when they have a good work-life balance and support to manage their home lives effectively.

@Howyoudoingirl

Well if supporting women in their choices is anti feminist then I'm happy to not be one. No wonder so many women are put off by feminism- we support you but only if you live they way we think you should.

The problem with that is you have utterly ignored the negative comments they made about women who are feminists, feminism in general.

If you wish to castigate me, and many others responding hre, for thinking "That's an odd and somewhat precarious position for a woman to take but hey! you live your own life" then, if you are as unbiased as you probably wish to see yourself, then you also have to castigate the woman who made statements like "Feminism is a cancer"

@paralysedbyinertia

As a society we should be offering more financial support for SAH and more support in returning to the workplace afterwards

I disagree that we should be offering financial support for people to SAH. I would far rather see support and incentives that promote flexible working for both parents so that they can share responsibilities more equally between them.

I would like to see more help for SAHPs to return to work though. I know it can be very difficult.

Who says both aren't possible?

But this sounds a lot like saying domestic work is just a kind of add on, temporarily, and real work is being some sort of employee.

But this sounds a lot like saying domestic work is just a kind of add on, temporarily, and real work is being some sort of employee.

No, it's saying that both are important and that men and women should both have the flexibility to balance their work and domestic responsibilities effectively.

@WeeBisom

Feminism surely has to mean more than supporting women in their choices, no matter what, because women can choose things which are fundamentally antithetical to feminist principles. If you accept that feminism is about freedom from male oppression, or that it has something to do with men and women being treated equally, to pursue a lifestyle where you insist that women are not equal to men and should not be equal to men is just not feminist. Even if they are very happy in their decision, this doesn't mean it's a feminist decision. And I think that's fine. I don't understand this drive to construe every lifestyle choice or belief as 'feminist'. Some women are feminists and some are not.

I have no problem in saying these choices, while freely made, are not feminist choices. To say that 'feminism is a cancer' and to think your husband comes first is profoundly anti feminist. I just hope it works out for them. Relying on another person for security is all well and good, but it can be risky.

This is so well said, thanks.

If feminism is about nothing but choices, then it’s ceased to mean much at all.

You see this with all the SAHM posts on here- lots of people arguing ‘choosing to be SAHM can be feminist, simply because it’s a choice.’

Feminism is about equality with men. Equality is mostly about earnings and independence. Not all women will choose equality. That’s ok.

We don’t all have to call ourselves feminist and watering it down reduces its appeal, IMO.

@paralysedbyinertia

But this sounds a lot like saying domestic work is just a kind of add on, temporarily, and real work is being some sort of employee.

No, it's saying that both are important and that men and women should both have the flexibility to balance their work and domestic responsibilities effectively.

Not if you are precluding one person taking on that role, you aren't.

Not everyone wants to be the main carer, and not everyone wants to work in employment. Why should they have to if they prefer a different arrangement?

And like it or not the idea that all jobs can be accommodated in that way is pie in the sky. Many can't.

Not everyone wants to be the main carer, and not everyone wants to work in employment. Why should they have to if they prefer a different arrangement?

I don't think they should have to at all. Being a SAHP is a perfectly valid choice of you can afford it. I just don't personally believe that it's a choice that the state should go out of its way to promote or facilitate, because I don't believe that it's the best way of organising our society.

On an individual level, SAH may suit someone very well. However, at a societal level, I believe a more equal division of labour is desirable, so that's what I would like public policy to promote.

I'm aware that others will disagree, but that's the beauty of democracy, isn't it? We all have different views as to how things should be run.

There are a lot of single parents who dont have anyone to share with.

@Howyoudoingirl

Well if supporting women in their choices is anti feminist then I'm happy to not be one. No wonder so many women are put off by feminism- we support you but only if you live they way we think you should.

You are egregiously missing the point.

Feminism is the belief that men and women are equal, ans because they are equal they should be treated equally in society, socially, economically and financially,

All women should support this. Even if you yourself do not wish to be equal to a man, then you should support other women in this constant struggle.

Feminism only hurts men if the men in question rely on being superior to women, and if that’s your bag crack on. But don’t expect to be universally respected for it.

However wishing to be inferior to a man is not synonymous with being a traditional house wife, the ones I know are predominantly not, but for many this is the path it Leads down due to inequality of finances and a lack of respect for not earning and doing thr more menial tasks your husband would rather not do.

egregiously Oooh! A word that isn't used enough

Thank you for reminding me of it's existence.

Stupid dickheads 🙄 I honestly think a huge amount of women don’t have any appreciation or respect for the rights and freedoms other women won them. I actually think we will need to lose all of our rights, and fight for them all over again. Maybe second time around more women will appreciate them?

I've crossed paths with Lillian and Felipe many times on a personal level.

He is hugely (almost pathologically) homophobic and has issues with women.

Lillian is a very accomplished musician and very intelligent woman and I really don't think she's anywhere near as subjugated as she would first appear.

Almost as if the 'trad wife' bullshit is just a way to get their faces on tv.....

Wouldn't surprise me if the 'trad wifes' get traded in for younger models when their ghastly husbands tire of them ...they might regret not working outside the home and having their own money at that point.