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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lesbian Visibility Week

999 replies

Shizuku · 27/04/2021 11:40

Shout out to my fellow lesbians on this important week!

I will be wearing my lesbian pride badge right next to my trans pride badge for the whole week in all public spaces.

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8
Kit19 · 29/04/2021 11:41

This reply has been deleted

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Whythesadface · 29/04/2021 11:42

How can a daughter of Eve display a penis?
DNA shows no Daughter of Eve has ever had one?
This is basic Mother Nature at work.

Mollyollydolly · 29/04/2021 11:43

Can I just second the recommendation for The Mess We're In this week, Kate and Ben from LGBA are amazing women. They were really worth listening to about all their plans and how focused they are with that rather than arguing with idiots on the internet.

Highly highly recommend.

ASugarr · 29/04/2021 11:43

@Whythesadface

How can a daughter of Eve display a penis? DNA shows no Daughter of Eve has ever had one? This is basic Mother Nature at work.
Well that's if you believe in Adam and Eve. Not all of us do.
ASugarr · 29/04/2021 11:44

@Mollyollydolly

Can I just second the recommendation for The Mess We're In this week, Kate and Ben from LGBA are amazing women. They were really worth listening to about all their plans and how focused they are with that rather than arguing with idiots on the internet.

Highly highly recommend.

Can I recommend the vagina museum. Fabulous charity organisation with their own museum and resources that are all gender nutural and supporting transgender and cisgender people 🤍
R0wantrees · 29/04/2021 11:45

More than half of young trans people attempt suicide - that's how difficult it is to be trans. Piling on the mockery, and invalidation is seriously damaging to these young frightened people.

Leveraging self harm/ suicide ideation in children through use of such statistics is contrary to Samaritans' guidance and all best practice. Adults who perpetrate this are profoundly irresponsible (not least in how it impacts those children they claim to advocate for)

Transgender Trend
'Suicide Facts and Myths'
"Every parent faced with a child claiming they are transgender will have heard the terrifying statistics about high suicide rates when transgender children are not supported in their preferred gender identity. It is frequently mentioned in news reports covering transgender issues and is often a strong emotional motivator for parents to support their child’s wish to transition. It is suggested that ‘affirmation’ and social and medical transition is the only answer to help children with gender dysphoria.

However, is this really true? Is there strong evidence to support this widely held view? We strongly believe that the answer is no.

Although there is no doubt that children and young people suffering gender dysphoria are an extremely vulnerable group deserving of our support and care, the oft-quoted suicide statistics are from surveys which are not robust and there is no evidence that transition is a ‘cure.’

Any risk of suicide is terrifying for parents, every suicide is an awful tragedy and for this reason we feel that exaggerating the risk and constantly using the threat of suicide is unhelpful and irresponsible. We have attempted to sort out the actual facts of this emotive subject." (continues)
www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

Shizuku · 29/04/2021 11:45

@JensonsAcolyte

More than half of young trans people attempt suicide this is a dangerous and disturbing lie. Why do you keep repeating it?
Pretty much every poll of trans people in every country that looks at suicidality, comes up with similar figures. I appreciate that there are people who devote many hours to trying to massage the figures out of existence because essentially the facts make it look like they are bullying an extremely vulnerable minority, but the facts remain:

www.thetrevorproject.org/survey-2019/?section=Introduction

www.thetrevorproject.org/survey-2020/?section=Introduction

static1.squarespace.com/static/566c7f0c2399a3bdabb57553/t/566cbf2c57eb8de92a5392e6/1449967404768/ntds_full.pdf

transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/usts/USTS-Full-Report-Dec17.pdf

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/suicidality-transgender-adults/

chinadevelopmentbrief.cn/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/2017-Chinese-Transgender-Population-General-Survey-Report.pdf

OP posts:
yourhairiswinterfire · 29/04/2021 11:46

If someone is being coerced into having sex, call the police.

Yeah because the police are so shit hot when it comes to the harassment and rape of women Hmm

StrangeLookingParasite · 29/04/2021 11:47

Being born female or male doesn't make you a man or woman. They are gender terms meaning it isn't down to biology.

No amount of repeating this lie will ever make it true.

Shizuku · 29/04/2021 11:49

[quote R0wantrees]More than half of young trans people attempt suicide - that's how difficult it is to be trans. Piling on the mockery, and invalidation is seriously damaging to these young frightened people.

Leveraging self harm/ suicide ideation in children through use of such statistics is contrary to Samaritans' guidance and all best practice. Adults who perpetrate this are profoundly irresponsible (not least in how it impacts those children they claim to advocate for)

Transgender Trend
'Suicide Facts and Myths'
"Every parent faced with a child claiming they are transgender will have heard the terrifying statistics about high suicide rates when transgender children are not supported in their preferred gender identity. It is frequently mentioned in news reports covering transgender issues and is often a strong emotional motivator for parents to support their child’s wish to transition. It is suggested that ‘affirmation’ and social and medical transition is the only answer to help children with gender dysphoria.

However, is this really true? Is there strong evidence to support this widely held view? We strongly believe that the answer is no.

Although there is no doubt that children and young people suffering gender dysphoria are an extremely vulnerable group deserving of our support and care, the oft-quoted suicide statistics are from surveys which are not robust and there is no evidence that transition is a ‘cure.’

Any risk of suicide is terrifying for parents, every suicide is an awful tragedy and for this reason we feel that exaggerating the risk and constantly using the threat of suicide is unhelpful and irresponsible. We have attempted to sort out the actual facts of this emotive subject." (continues)
www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/[/quote]
Referencing a group run by a sculptor who isn't trans, doesn't have a trans kid, has no experience working with trans people, and has no qualifications in the care of trans people, and whose organisation thought it was a good idea for children to put transphobic stickers on their school books, does not further your case:

Lesbian Visibility Week
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Helleofabore · 29/04/2021 11:49

Have you considered that there might be more to your fellow humans than the gametes they produce?

deflection.

Have you noticed that women discussing their rights and how other group's rights may conflict with those rights have had to be very precise with their language to make sure that they can convey an message as it relates to them? Maybe there is a lot more to this

Incidentally, if your body developed in such a way that it is unable to produce large gametes, then it didn't form around the production of large gametes.

No. If it formed around the production of large gametes, it formed around the production of large gametes regardless of whether they are then produced. Just because a person has been born without a leg, doesn't mean that person's body has been formed around them being a monopod.

But let's not kill the atmos - it's lesbian visibility week - let's celebrate lesbians together.

Well, better leave them to it then I guess.

ASugarr · 29/04/2021 11:49

@yourhairiswinterfire

If someone is being coerced into having sex, call the police.

Yeah because the police are so shit hot when it comes to the harassment and rape of women Hmm

Well what else do you want them to do?
Shizuku · 29/04/2021 11:50

@yourhairiswinterfire

If someone is being coerced into having sex, call the police.

Yeah because the police are so shit hot when it comes to the harassment and rape of women Hmm

See my post above. It didn't work when I called the police, but we got her out anyway.
OP posts:
ASugarr · 29/04/2021 11:50

@StrangeLookingParasite

Being born female or male doesn't make you a man or woman. They are gender terms meaning it isn't down to biology.

No amount of repeating this lie will ever make it true.

I mean it is reality. There are people out there who are.
Shizuku · 29/04/2021 11:53

@Helleofabore

Have you considered that there might be more to your fellow humans than the gametes they produce?

deflection.

Have you noticed that women discussing their rights and how other group's rights may conflict with those rights have had to be very precise with their language to make sure that they can convey an message as it relates to them? Maybe there is a lot more to this

Incidentally, if your body developed in such a way that it is unable to produce large gametes, then it didn't form around the production of large gametes.

No. If it formed around the production of large gametes, it formed around the production of large gametes regardless of whether they are then produced. Just because a person has been born without a leg, doesn't mean that person's body has been formed around them being a monopod.

But let's not kill the atmos - it's lesbian visibility week - let's celebrate lesbians together.

Well, better leave them to it then I guess.

" If it formed around the production of large gametes, it formed around the production of large gametes regardless of whether they are then produced."

If it formed in such a way that it can't produce large gametes, then it didn't form around the production of large gametes. This is basic logic.

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R0wantrees · 29/04/2021 11:53

Michael Biggs (Associate Professor of Sociology at the University of Oxford and Fellow of St Cross College.)
October 9, 2018
'Suicide by trans-identified children in England and Wales'

(extract)
"When transgendering organizations cite evidence on suicide, it almost invariably comes from surveys that recruit respondents haphazardly—without random sampling from a defined population—and ask them whether they have ever attempted to commit suicide. These surveys have been scrutinized in two earlier posts, and also on 4thwavenow. One problem is that trans-identified respondents might be primed to respond affirmatively to such questions by the continual emphasis on suicide in transgenderist discourse. Toby Sinbad Walker, for example, suggests that trans-identified females will kill themselves if they have to wait for breast amputations (continues)

Although calculated from only four suicides, the suicide rate is much higher than for teenagers overall—in my rough (over)estimate, 13 times greater. This is a genuine cause for concern. By comparison, anorexia multiplies the risk of suicide by 18 or 31 times (depending on the method of estimation), while depression multiplies it by 20 (Smith, Zuromski, and Dodd 2018). One study finds that autism multiplies the risk of suicide by a factor of 8 (Hirvikoski et al. 2016). This latter figure is especially relevant, given the fact that 35% of children referred to GIDS recently have moderate to severe autism (Butler, De Graaf, Wren, and Carmichael 2018).

Whether the higher rate of suicide among trans-identified teens is due to gender dysphoria or to co-incident conditions such as autism deserves urgent research. At the same time, we must realize that suicides of trans-identified children are rare tragedies and not—as transgendering organizations like Mermaids imply—a common occurrence. Rational and compassionate policy-making cannot be driven by the threat of suicide."
www.transgendertrend.com/suicide-by-trans-identified-children-in-england-and-wales/

BeReet · 29/04/2021 11:55

You may not be a troll but you are definitely not a feminist.

Whythesadface · 29/04/2021 11:55

So just say Males were toxic to females.
To be with your lover you have to declare you are either a Woman or a Man.
Liars kill their lover and will be put to death for murder.
So the lesbians are ok.
The homosexuals are ok.
The heterosexual males get detoxification and are Ok.
The Transwoman . Who claim to be woman will always kill their lovers, why ?

Shizuku · 29/04/2021 11:57

[quote R0wantrees]Michael Biggs (Associate Professor of Sociology at the University of Oxford and Fellow of St Cross College.)
October 9, 2018
'Suicide by trans-identified children in England and Wales'

(extract)
"When transgendering organizations cite evidence on suicide, it almost invariably comes from surveys that recruit respondents haphazardly—without random sampling from a defined population—and ask them whether they have ever attempted to commit suicide. These surveys have been scrutinized in two earlier posts, and also on 4thwavenow. One problem is that trans-identified respondents might be primed to respond affirmatively to such questions by the continual emphasis on suicide in transgenderist discourse. Toby Sinbad Walker, for example, suggests that trans-identified females will kill themselves if they have to wait for breast amputations (continues)

Although calculated from only four suicides, the suicide rate is much higher than for teenagers overall—in my rough (over)estimate, 13 times greater. This is a genuine cause for concern. By comparison, anorexia multiplies the risk of suicide by 18 or 31 times (depending on the method of estimation), while depression multiplies it by 20 (Smith, Zuromski, and Dodd 2018). One study finds that autism multiplies the risk of suicide by a factor of 8 (Hirvikoski et al. 2016). This latter figure is especially relevant, given the fact that 35% of children referred to GIDS recently have moderate to severe autism (Butler, De Graaf, Wren, and Carmichael 2018).

Whether the higher rate of suicide among trans-identified teens is due to gender dysphoria or to co-incident conditions such as autism deserves urgent research. At the same time, we must realize that suicides of trans-identified children are rare tragedies and not—as transgendering organizations like Mermaids imply—a common occurrence. Rational and compassionate policy-making cannot be driven by the threat of suicide."
www.transgendertrend.com/suicide-by-trans-identified-children-in-england-and-wales/[/quote]
Michael Biggs? You mean the guy who was caught running a transphobic Twitter account under the name of Henry Wimbush by his university? That Michael Biggs? Great source.

www.oxfordstudent.com/2018/10/26/transphobic-tweets-linked-to-oxford-sociology-professor/

Lesbian Visibility Week
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Shizuku · 29/04/2021 11:59

@BeReet

You may not be a troll but you are definitely not a feminist.
Come on - stop saying horrible things. Some people accept trans women as women. Some of those people are lesbians. There is more than your perspective in the world.
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OhHolyJesus · 29/04/2021 12:00

Can I just second the recommendation for The Mess We're In this week, Kate and Bev from LGBA are amazing women.

So incredible and the LGB Alliance tweets for lesbian visibility have been informative.

Like this - lots of history and memories to be proud of this week.

twitter.com/alliancelgb/status/1386998563058581507?s=21

R0wantrees · 29/04/2021 12:02

Referencing a group run by a sculptor who isn't trans, doesn't have a trans kid, has no experience working with trans people, and has no qualifications in the care of trans people, and whose organisation thought it was a good idea for children to put transphobic stickers on their school books, does not further your case:

Transgender Trend is, "are an organisation of parents, professionals and academics based in the UK who are concerned about the current trend to diagnose children as transgender, including the unprecedented number of teenage girls suddenly self-identifying as ‘trans’ (Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria or ROGD). We are also concerned about legislation which places transgender rights above the right to safety for girls and young women in public toilets and changing rooms along with fairness for girls in sport."

Founded by Stephanie Davies Arai:
"Stephanie Davies-Arai is a communication skills trainer and author of Communicating with Kids. She has worked with parents and teachers for over twenty years, including eight years at a primary school in East Sussex in various roles including parent governor. She is an experienced speaker on parenting, feminism and ‘transgender’ children. She has spoken at events around the UK, including in the House of Commons and the House of Lords and has been interviewed across the media, including BBC Woman’s Hour, The Today programme and Newsnight. She founded the organisation Transgender Trend in 2015 and produced a schools guide Supporting gender diverse and trans-identified students in schools in 2018, for which she was shortlisted for the John Maddox prize 2018, an award which “recognises the work of individuals who promote sound science and evidence on a matter of public interest, facing difficulty or hostility in doing so.” Stephanie has contributed chapters to Transgender Children and Young People: Born in Your Own Body and Inventing Transgender Children and Young People, both collections of essays edited by Heather Brunskell-Evans and Michele Moore, published by Cambridge Scholars."

Transgender Trend's evidence was accepted as intervenor by the High Court Bell vs Tavistock Judicial Review.

(extract)
In 2016, Transgender Trend asked how a child could give informed consent to a pathway that will shape their whole life:

To be in the position of having to make this decision is an unenviable one for parents but it’s especially worrying when the decision is handed over to the child. Of course, a child needs to be informed and their view ascertained before any treatment, but really how can a child begin to understand the complexity of this issue, the life-long effects of treatment which even the adults don’t know, and the reality of life as a transsexual adult?

In 2020 the High Court agreed. (Bell v.Tavistock, para 151,152.) Why did the GIDS not listen to the voices of caution over those four years?
www.transgendertrend.com/the-gender-clinic-revisited-keira-bell-judgment/

CorvusPurpureus · 29/04/2021 12:04

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Helleofabore · 29/04/2021 12:04

If someone is being coerced into having sex, call the police.

Coercion comes in a great many forms as someone who has grown up as a female can attest to. Most of the time, it is hard to identify it to yourself as coercion until it is too late.

And with the current rate of successful prosecution, I am sure that you know that women are not going to the police anyway the majority of the time.

Mollyollydolly · 29/04/2021 12:04

I really admire Kate and Bev.
It was funny seeing them gently chiding Graham because he wants them to sue the arse off people. I understand his anger and passion, but they are so right.
They are quietly getting on with important work and making real progress while all the lunatics scream at them. It was a great lesson in campaigning and good sense and dignity. They are a real class act.