Lesbian Visibility Week

[Shizuku]

Shout out to my fellow lesbians on this important week!

I will be wearing my lesbian pride badge right next to my trans pride badge for the whole week in all public spaces.

[R0wantrees]

Michael Biggs? You mean the guy who was caught running a transphobic Twitter account under the name of Henry Wimbush by his university? That Michael Biggs? Great source.

Michael Biggs B.A. Hons (Victoria University of Wellington), Ph.D. (Harvard) Associate Professor of Sociology and Fellow of St Cross College, University of Oxford

Michael Biggs maintains a list of, "Academics and others at British universities targeted for questioning transgender orthodoxy" here:
users.ox.ac.uk/~sfos0060/GCtargets.shtml

May 2018 Michael Biggs,
"Free speech at Oxford: Do women have the right to meet to discuss legislation?"
"A meeting was held on 25 April 2018 to discuss proposed changes to the law on gender recognition. The proposed legislation will eliminate sex-segregated spaces and activities, from women’s refuges to competitive sports. In a democracy, people have the right to meet to discuss—and indeed oppose—legislative changes. This should be incontrovertible. I am appalled that a small number of students at Oxford used extreme measures to stop this meeting from being held....
(concludes)
I have entered this debate not because I am a feminist but because freedom of speech is one of the highest values of a democratic society, and the basic foundation of university life.
Transgender activism poses a grave threat to freedom of speech. I think of the young MPhil student who had to disguise herself to attend this meeting because she feared the reaction of fellow students. This is the generation that we have educated."

//users.ox.ac.uk/~sfos0060/FreeSpeechOxford.pdf

[Shizuku]

Once more - shout out to all my fellow lesbians on this important week.

A special shout out to the trans lesbians who are so relentlessly mocked, the cis lesbians who accept trans lesbians who are relentlessly invalidated, and all the lesbians having to hide their true selves in countries around the world where their love is illegal.

I will be donating to charities that support you all. Don't know if it will help, but we see you, and we are thinking of you.

[Helleofabore]

If it formed in such a way that it can't produce large gametes, then it didn't form around the production of large gametes. This is basic logic.

Not at all. It means there is a medical condition that prevents the production of large gametes or has prevented the organ from being developed. that specific body part. Or maybe two body parts. The rest of body that SUPPORTS that production of large gametes is still there and in place. That is basic logic.


As we keep saying across numerous threads. People with DSDs that cannot be categorised with modern technology into male or female are incredibly rare. And as we also keep saying, their bodies have nothing to do with being trans.

[yourhairiswinterfire]

Well what else do you want them to do?

It's the flippancy of 'just call the police' that annoyed me. Rape is effectively decriminalised and so many women are put off reporting as it is, it's not as simple as just calling the police. And not every woman or girl has someone they can rely on to help her out of a bad situation, either.

These women have already been coerced into sex. They're already now deeply traumatised because they were told they had to fix themselves and had to prove something. Calling the police doesn't fix trauma. What women are put through after reporting can make that trauma worse.

A good start would be ending the gaslighting of young, vulnerable lesbians, so they don't feel like they have to accept penis in the first place. The community needs to condemn that shit wherever they see it, make it clear that it's not accepted. No excusing the behaviour.

It would also be great if the biggest LGBT charity in the UK would speak out about this, but I haven't heard anything from them yet (we've only been waiting to hear from them on the matter for a few years, I'm sure their statement of condemnation is coming aaany day now...)

Stress to young lesbians that their sexual orientation is absolutely not transphobic, a preference, or a genital fetish.

But to help them with this, we need to be able to openly talk about it without being shouted down. Denying lesbians their own exclusive same sex attracted spaces needs to stop, because they need to be free to talk, support and advise each other.

[AfternoonToffee]

@yourhairiswinterfire

If someone is being coerced into having sex, call the police.

Yeah because the police are so shit hot when it comes to the harassment and rape of women

They may as well sign their own arrest warrant as well, saying no makes one a transphobe apparently.

[Shizuku]

@PigeonPants

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

"my critique of men here to shame women into sleeping with them."

I am fairly confident in stating that absolutely everyone involved in this thread believes that no one should be shamed into having sex with anyone.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

I'm not so confident. I think there just might be the odd one, here or there.

[Whythesadface]

I disagree, there is no such thing as a trans lesbian.
I disagree that any body that has a penis is a female or a woman.
Be proud of who you are don't steal someone else's identity.
DNA will get you in the end. Mother Nature's revenge.

[ASugarr]

@Whythesadface

I disagree, there is no such thing as a trans lesbian.
I disagree that any body that has a penis is a female or a woman.
Be proud of who you are don't steal someone else's identity.
DNA will get you in the end. Mother Nature's revenge.

Okay and I disagree that there are trans lesbians.

[ASugarr]

As in there are trans lesbians who exsit

[Shizuku]

"A good start would be ending the gaslighting of young, vulnerable lesbians, so they don't feel like they have to accept penis in the first place. "

Absolutely, just as you should end the gaslighting of young vulnerable lesbians who have partners who happen to be trans women, so they don't feel they have to only accept partners you approve of.

And you should also stop the gaslighting of young vulnerable lesbians who happen to be trans, so they don't feel mocked and invalidated.

Essentially, just let lesbians be - even the ones you disagree with - it's not your job to police any of us, especially in lesbian visibility week.

[JensonsAcolyte]

‘Lesbians’ in relationships with Trans women are either heterosexual or bisexual.

And there’s nothing wrong with that.

But Lesbian has a specific meaning and it’s as homophobic as fuck to appropriate it.

[Helleofabore]

@yourhairiswinterfire

Well what else do you want them to do?

It's the flippancy of 'just call the police' that annoyed me. Rape is effectively decriminalised and so many women are put off reporting as it is, it's not as simple as just calling the police. And not every woman or girl has someone they can rely on to help her out of a bad situation, either.

These women have already been coerced into sex. They're already now deeply traumatised because they were told they had to fix themselves and had to prove something. Calling the police doesn't fix trauma. What women are put through after reporting can make that trauma worse.

A good start would be ending the gaslighting of young, vulnerable lesbians, so they don't feel like they have to accept penis in the first place. The community needs to condemn that shit wherever they see it, make it clear that it's not accepted. No excusing the behaviour.

It would also be great if the biggest LGBT charity in the UK would speak out about this, but I haven't heard anything from them yet (we've only been waiting to hear from them on the matter for a few years, I'm sure their statement of condemnation is coming aaany day now...)

Stress to young lesbians that their sexual orientation is absolutely not transphobic, a preference, or a genital fetish.

But to help them with this, we need to be able to openly talk about it without being shouted down. Denying lesbians their own exclusive same sex attracted spaces needs to stop, because they need to be free to talk, support and advise each other.

Yes. This.

[ASugarr]

@JensonsAcolyte

‘Lesbians’ in relationships with Trans women are either heterosexual or bisexual.

And there’s nothing wrong with that.

But Lesbian has a specific meaning and it’s as homophobic as fuck to appropriate it.

That first statement is incorrect. A trans woman with a cisgender or transgender woman is a lesbian. It is homophobic to think otherwise.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Fabulous charity organisation with their own museum and resources that are all gender nutural and supporting transgender and cisgender people

And not non-trans, non "cis" people? We have vaginas too. How exclusionary.

[heathspeedwell]

As a bisexual women, I have had sex with men and women. I've also had sex with a transwoman.

I can safely say that having sex with a transwoman is not like having sex with a woman in any way at all.

[JensonsAcolyte]

That first statement is incorrect. A trans woman with a cisgender or transgender woman is a lesbian. It is homophobic to think otherwise.

Two Transwomen in a relationship are very much not lesbians. Use your fucking brain. Stop spouting nonsense.

[ASugarr]

@heathspeedwell

As a bisexual women, I have had sex with men and women. I've also had sex with a transwoman.

I can safely say that having sex with a transwoman is not like having sex with a woman in any way at all.

Okay that's your experience. It isn't the same experience for everyone else.

[ASugarr]

@JensonsAcolyte

That first statement is incorrect. A trans woman with a cisgender or transgender woman is a lesbian. It is homophobic to think otherwise.

Two Transwomen in a relationship are very much not lesbians. Use your fucking brain. Stop spouting nonsense.

Yes they are.

[R0wantrees]

But Lesbian has a specific meaning and it’s as homophobic as fuck to appropriate it.


UK Equality Act 2010
2010 CHAPTER 15
Commentary on Sections
Part 2: Equality: Key Concepts
Chapter 1: Protected characteristics

Section 12: Sexual orientation
Effect
55.This section defines the protected characteristic of sexual orientation as being a person’s sexual orientation towards:

people of the same sex as him or her (in other words the person is a gay man or a lesbian)

people of the opposite sex from him or her (the person is heterosexual)

people of both sexes (the person is bisexual).

56.It also explains that references to people sharing a sexual orientation mean that they are of the same sexual orientation.

Background
57.The definition is designed to replicate the effect of similar provisions in the Employment Equality (Sexual Orientation) Regulations 2003 and the Equality Act 2006.

Examples
A man who experiences sexual attraction towards both men and women is “bisexual” in terms of sexual orientation even if he has only had relationships with women.

A man and a woman who are both attracted only to people of the opposite sex from them share a sexual orientation.

A man who is attracted only to other men is a gay man. A woman who is attracted only to other women is a lesbian. So a gay man and a lesbian share a sexual orientation."
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/12/notes