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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lesbian Visibility Week

999 replies

Shizuku · 27/04/2021 11:40

Shout out to my fellow lesbians on this important week!

I will be wearing my lesbian pride badge right next to my trans pride badge for the whole week in all public spaces.

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NecessaryScene1 · 30/04/2021 09:53

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes deleted post.

Anovaneway · 30/04/2021 09:53

it did not follow that this legal term was applied across all sections of the law.

Yes of course and there are exceptions in the GRA. But that doesn’t mean the legal sex of a person with an amended birth certificate can be ignored.

blackwhiteandstripey · 30/04/2021 09:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TheWeeDonkey · 30/04/2021 09:55

When I first saw this thread I was pretty disgusted and was even more disgusted by @MNHQ refusal to remove the thread after I had reported it, but I have to say well done MN, this has turned into a fascinating thread and the sunlight is glorious.

Solidarity with all the lesbian women who after millennia still have to put up with some sections off society struggling to understand that female sexuality can exist exclusively without a male body or opinion.

Oh and solidarity to all trans and non binary people who understand biology is real and identifying with women is just as important as identifying as women.

GreyhoundG1rl · 30/04/2021 09:56

I didn't realise you were trans, HamsterV2
Maybe because you're talking complete sense... 👍 Another light in the darkness, thank you.
Any rational discourse on this is worth it's weight in gold.

GNCQ · 30/04/2021 09:56

@Anovaneway

The attempted redefinition of the word “lesbian” has everything to do with the topic of this thread

There are many lesbians born women who have clearly stated that if they fell in love with a trans woman they would still be lesbians and have the right to define themselves as lesbians.

....And..... on the flipside you have women who are actually same sex attracted being rightfully angry that their label is being appropriated by people with a penis/people opposite sex attracted.

Round and round we go.

Didn't bisexuality acceptance happen in the nineties?

HamsterV2 · 30/04/2021 09:56

....and I've just had my long post deleted. "Wrong kind of trans" strikes again...

GreyhoundG1rl · 30/04/2021 09:57

@HamsterV2

....and I've just had my long post deleted. "Wrong kind of trans" strikes again...
Oh, ffs Hmm
GNCQ · 30/04/2021 09:57

Hamster is a true ally to women who's posts are consistently fab Flowers

GNCQ · 30/04/2021 09:58

@HamsterV2

....and I've just had my long post deleted. "Wrong kind of trans" strikes again...
W.T.F
HamsterV2 · 30/04/2021 09:58

Hey - I'm finally getting to know what it feels like to be a woman.

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Silenced...

yourhairiswinterfire · 30/04/2021 09:59

I just want to get on with my life in peace and wish this would all stop tbh. From an utterly selfish point of view, this affects me just as it affects women. People like me are being tarred with the same brush as the others in the community and it's wearing. That doesn't mean I'll change my values or stop standing up for women - I just wish it would just all go away sometimes so I can just be "me" without all the unnecessary attention caused by the consequences of the warped ideology. But that's enough self-pity.

Flowers

I don't see you post often Hamster, but it's been great hearing from you on this thread. You have a belting sense of humour.

Hopefully most people realise that what's going on now doesn't represent the majority of trans people. Certainly not the few I know. Exactly like you, they just want to get on with it, don't take themselves too seriously at all.

We'll get there :)

R0wantrees · 30/04/2021 09:59

Feminists and trans people like you Hamster, need to work together.

May 2020
Dr Julia Long
'A Meaningful Transition?'
(extract)
"Jennifer Bilek’s important recent article on ‘good transwomen’ has initiated a long-overdue conversation about the role and influence of ‘transsexuals’ within gender critical spaces. In this piece I continue the conversation with a consideration of the inhibiting effects of their presence on critical thinking and language use in the British context.

Language determines what is perceptible, thinkable, possible and knowable within a culture. Language develops to support and enable different ways of thinking, or is suppressed in order to discourage them. The speed and ease with which new terms are established determines how quickly new social realities become normal; ‘social distancing’ and ‘self-isolation’ are obvious current examples. The relationship between the words we use and the lives we live is, to borrow Andrea Dworkin’s phrase, an umbilical one.

This relationship is nowhere more obvious than in the phenomenon of ‘transgenderism,’1 which has over the past decade or so introduced a dizzying and seemingly endless proliferation of patently absurd new terms and concepts: ‘gender identity’, ‘trans woman’, ‘non-binary’. Given that these terms are based on false premises and easily exposed as fictitious, it is strange that the British gender critical2 movement has shown very little willingness to reject wholesale the pernicious language of transgenderism. High-profile groups such as A Woman’s Place UK (WPUK) and Fair Play for Women insist that they are in favour of the rights of ‘trans people’, habitually use the terms ‘trans woman’ or ‘transwoman’, and use ‘she’ pronouns for men who demand it. Paradoxically then, much of what is written and spoken in the name of British gender critical feminism in fact does the ideological work of transgenderists for them, promulgating their fictions as legitimate and valid through speaking their language." (continues)

lesbianalliance.org.uk/a-meaningful-transition/

HipTightOnions · 30/04/2021 09:59

have the right to define themselves as lesbians.

I suppose I too have “the right to define myself” as a lesbian but I would be lying or mistaken.

MrsWooster · 30/04/2021 10:00

@Anovaneway

The attempted redefinition of the word “lesbian” has everything to do with the topic of this thread

There are many lesbians born women who have clearly stated that if they fell in love with a trans woman they would still be lesbians and have the right to define themselves as lesbians.

Upthread is the legal definition of lesbian which is same sex attraction. No-one doubts that many women are attracted to transwomen; their sexual orientation is therefore bisexual.
Sophoclesthefox · 30/04/2021 10:00

@HamsterV2

....and I've just had my long post deleted. "Wrong kind of trans" strikes again...
Oh my god.

This is terrible.

Really terrible.

Is this welcoming to trans people, MNHQ? I don’t see how Hamsters posts can be deleted, but ones upthread saying there’s nothing more to gender identity than pronouns and a declaration can stand.

Crikey.

NecessaryScene1 · 30/04/2021 10:00

@HamsterV2

Yep, looks like you're passing. Grin

I've got text and screenshot copies saved, if you ever want to post them elsewhere.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/04/2021 10:00

Are two biologically male people who have taken no hormones and not had surgery but "state" that they both identify as women and have an exclusive sexual relationship, a lesbian couple, @Anovaneway? Just trying to see where you are coming from and if you draw any lines.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 30/04/2021 10:02

These deletions are ridiculous. Hamster has done more to foster MNers' goodwill towards the trans community on this one thread than some prolific self-styled trans-friendly posters have done in months of posting.

And yet, whose posts get deleted? Confused

LostToucan · 30/04/2021 10:05

@HamsterV2

....and I've just had my long post deleted. "Wrong kind of trans" strikes again...
That was a very eloquent, considered and informative post. Glad I had the chance to read it.
Kit19 · 30/04/2021 10:05

I guess the monitors are watching this thread closely then

(waves to the eyeballs in the sky)

as always I find it interesting whose posts stand and whose get deleted....

Iluvfriends · 30/04/2021 10:05

@Anovaneway

it did not follow that this legal term was applied across all sections of the law.

Yes of course and there are exceptions in the GRA. But that doesn’t mean the legal sex of a person with an amended birth certificate can be ignored.

But it's ok to ignore biology.

I want to be a millionaire, so if i call myself one i am one.........see that doesn't really work does it!!

ArabellaScott · 30/04/2021 10:09

Ridiculous to have deleted Hamster's thread. What on earth was the reason for it?

TheWeeDonkey · 30/04/2021 10:09

@HamsterV2

....and I've just had my long post deleted. "Wrong kind of trans" strikes again...
Well thats just shit, I really appreciated your posts Hamster I've asked @mnhq why it was deleted.
WoolOfBat · 30/04/2021 10:10

Hamster I saw your post and you talk so much of sense. I completely agree that your outlook on life combined with your sense of humour makes you someone I would love to have a drink and a few laughs with.

I am aghast that MNHQ is deleting a post from a trans woman outlining her experience which at times was an uncomfortable and painful read. I cannot imagine being faced with that from people who purports to be my allies Flowers.

So not only do some posters try to hound trans widows off the internet. And in a way that is so awful that even Twitter names it hateful conduct. They also report and try to silence a trans woman talking about her subjective experience.

Words fail me.

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