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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Lesbian Visibility Week

999 replies

Shizuku · 27/04/2021 11:40

Shout out to my fellow lesbians on this important week!

I will be wearing my lesbian pride badge right next to my trans pride badge for the whole week in all public spaces.

OP posts:
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8
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 30/04/2021 09:27

Helleofabore

^lesbian-rights-nz.org/shame-receipts/^

Just reading these is distressing enough and I am not a lesbian. I cannot imagine how these people continue to be supported by the LGBT community.

Maybe Shizuku would like to address these accounts posted bypurgatoryand the content of the lesbian-rights website....

For anyone who needs a quick refresher, it's on page 12 if you have your threads set to 25 posts a page (1000 posts=40 pages). Anyone else, just scroll up/click back to 15:25 yesterday, wherever that is for you.

R0wantrees · 30/04/2021 09:29

If someone born with a male body is more mentally well and functional transitioning to as close as physically/ hormonally possible to female and sees themselves as a woman then they have a female gender identity.

A male person cannot 'functionally transition" out of their male sex or to be any more/less female than any other male person.
Women's hormone profiles from menarche to menopause are cyclical and not replicated.
The reason for taking oestrogen is primarily for the desired side effect of gynecomastia.

"Gynecomastia is an enlargement or swelling of breast tissue in males. It is most commonly caused by male estrogen levels that are too high or are out of balance with testosterone levels"

ASugarr · 30/04/2021 09:30

@sanluca

" ^*ASugarr She is a woman, she has a wife and is a lesbian. That's all you need to know.

Those are certainly claims, but do you truly expect others to accept those claims? What do they mean?^"
That is who she is. No question about it.*

They can call themselves anything they want, they do not have the protected characteristic of being same sex attracted or that of the female sex, they only have the characteristic of gender reassignment. That is the point we are making.

Okay. That's what they are fighting for and has nothing to do with the actual topic of this thread.
LostToucan · 30/04/2021 09:34

They can call themselves anything they want, they do not have the protected characteristic of being same sex attracted or that of the female sex, they only have the characteristic of gender reassignment. That is the point we are making.

Okay. That's what they are fighting for and has nothing to do with the actual topic of this thread.

The attempted redefinition of the word “lesbian” has everything to do with the topic of this thread Confused

yourhairiswinterfire · 30/04/2021 09:37

If someone born with a male body is more mentally well and functional transitioning to as close as physically/ hormonally possible to female and sees themselves as a woman then they have a female gender identity.

Someone asked: What is a woman. The answer was: Someone who identifies as a woman and uses she/her pronouns. Same for female, apparently that's a 'gender identity' too.

It is absurd when you define both words to have no biological meaning. I mentioned female specific cancers, like ovarian cancer. Women don't develop ovarian cancer because they feel like women and use she/her pronouns.

Girls aren't forced through FGM because they feel like girls and use she/her pronouns.

If all there was to man/male and woman/female was feelings, women would be able to identify out of female specific cancers, girls would be able to identify out of FGM.

But that's not possible, because FGM victims are biologically girls, women develop female cancers because we're biologically women. Not gender identities and pronouns.

Anovaneway · 30/04/2021 09:39

The GRA is a legal fiction. If I break the windows of Tesco, legally a person in company law, I have committed criminal damage, not ABH.

Trans people are actually real people though. Not some ‘legal entity” that doesn’t exist as a person. That level of abstraction isn’t required.

Whatwouldscullydo · 30/04/2021 09:40

Okay. That's what they are fighting for and has nothing to do with the actual topic of this thread

But words have definitions and meanings . If a meaning isn't transferable onto any topic then that's extremely problematic. We cabt even talk about the topic of the thread if the words to discuss said topic are exclusive to the thread.

blackwhiteandstripey · 30/04/2021 09:40

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R0wantrees · 30/04/2021 09:42

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GNCQ · 30/04/2021 09:42

Oh for goodness sake no one is saying trans people aren't real people. Typical hyperbole.

You can't change sex. That's all. Trans people would not be trans unless they were born a specific sex in the first place.

HamsterV2 · 30/04/2021 09:43

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/04/2021 09:43

Trans people are actually real people though. Not some ‘legal entity” that doesn’t exist as a person. That level of abstraction isn’t required.

The GRA is a legal fiction. That's all. Trans people are people indeed, but of the opposite sex to the one they identify as.

GNCQ · 30/04/2021 09:44

^ to the poster who said in their reply to the poster who made the shop window analogy, that trans people are real people.

GNCQ · 30/04/2021 09:44

Blimey this thread is moving fast

WoolOfBat · 30/04/2021 09:45

The legal abstraction was just referring to the fact that although a legal entity is a person in the legal sense, it is only for certain purposes (like contract signing) and not for others (damage).

It was trying to point out (quite cleverly I thought) that just because the law in a certain instance named you a specific legal term, it did not follow that this legal term was applied across all sections of the law. It certainly didn’t follow that the legal term allowed you additional rights outside that specific legal context.

Nobody has said that trans people not are people. Of course they are.

R0wantrees · 30/04/2021 09:46

Trans people are actually real people though. Not some ‘legal entity” that doesn’t exist as a person. That level of abstraction isn’t required.

All people are real people.

Marie Shear, "Feminism is the radical notion that women are people"

Anovaneway · 30/04/2021 09:47

The attempted redefinition of the word “lesbian” has everything to do with the topic of this thread

There are many lesbians born women who have clearly stated that if they fell in love with a trans woman they would still be lesbians and have the right to define themselves as lesbians.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/04/2021 09:47

Oh for goodness sake no one is saying trans people aren't real people. Typical hyperbole.

You can't change sex. That's all. Trans people would not be trans unless they were born a specific sex in the first place.

This. As pp said with her "leaky abstraction" analogy (which prompted an interesting conversation with software developer DP, thank you!), these identities only exist and came about because sex exists, and the people who have them were not born into the sex they identify as.

waterlego · 30/04/2021 09:48

@HamsterV2, I enjoy reading your posts and find that you speak a lot of sense. Thank you. 💐

DialSquare · 30/04/2021 09:48

You sound bloody fantastic to me Hamster. Just like the sort of person I'd enjoy going out with for a few drinks, good conversation and laughs.

Sophoclesthefox · 30/04/2021 09:48

Hamster. Flowers

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/04/2021 09:50

People state all kinds of things. Facts often remain unchanged. Terms which have a clear meaning and exist in equality law remain unchanged. Sexual orientations are not gender identity based. A person who is exclusively same sex attracted is lesbian or gay. A person who is attracted to both sexes is bisexual.

ArabellaScott · 30/04/2021 09:50

Thank you, Hamster.

R0wantrees · 30/04/2021 09:50

There are many lesbians born women who have clearly stated that if they fell in love with a trans woman they would still be lesbians and have the right to define themselves as lesbians.

It would be a heterosexual relationship.

CorvusPurpureus · 30/04/2021 09:52

@Anovaneway

The attempted redefinition of the word “lesbian” has everything to do with the topic of this thread

There are many lesbians born women who have clearly stated that if they fell in love with a trans woman they would still be lesbians and have the right to define themselves as lesbians.

I don't think anyone's trying to stop them. Rather, people are arguing for their right to point out that according to the legal definition of the word 'lesbian', this usage would be inaccurate.

The distinction is between 'other people can use language incorrectly if they wish' & 'everyone should be coerced into using language incorrectly to keep the people who want to change the definition happy'.