Trans lesbian?

[Timeforatincture]

My first ever post on this board. Long time reader, and have found it highly educational. Thank you everyone.

There is a pullout in today's Guardian about influential lesbians. Cameos and longer pieces. One of the longer pieces is an interview with a "trans lesbian."

AIBUin thinking that's a bit odd?

@LasagnaEater

Hey there, lesbian here! The idea of lesbianism me and non-men attracted to non-men of course, so if they don't identify as a man they can identify as a lesbian. Some lesbians don't want to date trans women and that's ok, but I my self would

So you'd go straight for the right guy, would you, LasagnaEater?

That'll make you bisexual, not a lesbian. Lesbians are solely same-sex attracted. I speak as a lesbian.

Not sure why my post has been deleted, but it was roughly along the lines that I do not believe that people who have/had penises can be lesbians…

@334bu

Nobody is demonising transwomen by saying they can't be lesbians, that is just a fact. What we are saying is that it is homophobic to imply that same sex females are bigots if they don't accept male partners.

I agree that no one should be demonised for being attracted or not attracted to a gender type. But I don't agree with stopping trans women, from calling themselves lesbians if they're attracted to women. Just like a trans man being attracted men should be able to say they're gay.

@Giggorata I agreed with you 👍

And you speak as — what, Mrs Newman? A lesbian?

It's not your right to go giving the word 'lesbian' away to anyone who decides to use it. Nor to change the definition of lesbian — which is an adult human female exclusively attracted to other adult human females.

How ruddy dare you go giving our hard-fought rights (protected under the Equality Act 2010) away? Our same-sex sexuality is protected. And you wonder why lesbians and gay men are so f**king furious about this...

But I don't agree with stopping trans women, from calling themselves lesbians if they're attracted to women. Just like a trans man being attracted men should be able to say they're gay.

Why not, they are being homophobic? Do you condone homophobia if the transgressor is trans/

MrsNewms85

It's not about what they call themselves. It's about the entire concept of what constitutes sexual orientation.

I don't know if you realise, but there are no lesbian spaces left. Online dating apps, clubs, bars, bookshops, the lot. They have been colonised by men identifying as women who say they are lesbians. Very forcefully.

Lesbians are persecuted, relentlessly, for refusing to accept males in their dating pool. They are called everything from transphobic bigots to vagina fetishists.

It's not as though this is anything new. Lesbians have had to defend their sexual orientation, from men who think all they need is a bit of cock, since time immemorial.

There is a great deal of harm being done.

Up until now, gay men have been left relatively unscathed. But if you go onto places like datalounge, you will now find that they too are expected to enjoy sex with females, vaginas an all.

The homophobia for both men and women is reminiscent of the gay bashing of the 50s and 60s. It's utterly abhorrent.

This sounds awful Datun. I also just don't understand the mentality of pursuing someone who is not sexually interested in you. Similar to the mentality of those who pay for sex.

MrsNewms85 I am guessing you're not a lesbian yourself? Look at any lesbian group, app, dating site, event etc and you will see what we mean.

@Shedbuilder

So you'd go straight for the right guy, would you, LasagnaEater?

That'll make you bisexual, not a lesbian. Lesbians are solely same-sex attracted. I speak as a lesbian.

^^ this!

Another lesbian.

@GrownUpBeans

This sounds awful Datun. I also just don't understand the mentality of pursuing someone who is not sexually interested in you. Similar to the mentality of those who pay for sex.

No, me neither. But I suspect, for some, that's part of the thrill.

I went to a comedy thing Bethany Black was doing. Bethany's stand-up had two main narratives:

1. Bethany is a better, more successful lesbian than you because Bethany has a hot Swedish girlfriend.

2. Aren't women stupid? Especially those stupid working-class women who buy trashy women's magazines. Imagine being so stupid that you'd buy this nonsense and try and follow any of the advice in it?

I found 2) especially offensive, because if you have grown up not experiencing the sort of relentless, relentless pressure girls are under to present in the "right" way, look the "right" way, behave the "right" way, you won't understand why women buy these magazines.

tl;dr I think Bethany is an old-fashioned misogynist. I can't stop Bethany describing themselves as a lesbian, but I can say I personally don't subscribe to that view.

@CardinalLolzy

I wonder why a fairly old thread is being resurrected now by a new poster? Their post wasn't very clear except to try and define lesbians as non-men.

Yes, I think we should all ponder that for a second. I’m going to predict an AS shows no posts before or since.

So not only is this comedian homophobic and misogynistic they are also classist. Typical bigoted middle class male then!

Archery it's things like that from a so called 'comedian' that remind me how much real nastiness there is around and when a person from a protected group uses their status to spew bile, I'm so very glad I'm GC

And, Shedbuiler. Lesbian or not, you are in no position to label someone's sexuality?! How can you possibly TELL someone their sexuality, someone you don't even know?

@sunavendi

Why is a trans woman that is attracted to women, odd? Why can't people on here just let people live and be who they are? "Sinister" for fuck sake.

Bunch of transphobes.

They can be attracted to women but this makes them heterosexual as they cannot change sex.

A lesbian is an adult human female who is attracted to other adult human females. Same sex attraction: enshrined in the Equality Act, the dictionary and common understanding.

A lesbian (an adult human female) who has sex with a man (adult human male), even if that man says he's a lesbian, cannot be a lesbian. It really is that simple and always has been. Lesbians are only attracted to female-sexed people. Bisexual people are attracted to both male and female-sexed people.

I have every right (let alone my position, whatever you mean by that) to say that a woman who has sex with men isn't a lesbian. LasagnaEater said she'd sleep with a transwoman — so she can't be a lesbian because lesbians don't sleep with men. It's really not that difficult to get your head around.

Who's been telling you that lesbians sleep with men?

@Shedbuilder

A lesbian is an adult human female who is attracted to other adult human females. Same sex attraction: enshrined in the Equality Act, the dictionary and common understanding.

A lesbian (an adult human female) who has sex with a man (adult human male), even if that man says he's a lesbian, cannot be a lesbian. It really is that simple and always has been. Lesbians are only attracted to female-sexed people. Bisexual people are attracted to both male and female-sexed people.

I have every right (let alone my position, whatever you mean by that) to say that a woman who has sex with men isn't a lesbian. LasagnaEater said she'd sleep with a transwoman — so she can't be a lesbian because lesbians don't sleep with men. It's really not that difficult to get your head around.

Who's been telling you that lesbians sleep with men?

No. You told her what her sexuality is, which you have absolutely no right to do. You cannot possibly label someone else's sexuality. Sexuality and gender are both on a spectrum, why do you care so much about "official" definitions and the way it was defined years and years and years ago when lesbians were not accepted in society what so ever.

You're being pedantic and ridiculous.

@sunavendi this exactly 👏🏼 xx

My dd is 17 and is gay.

The whole trans lesbian thing has changed her views on the trans debate. A few years ago she was 'transwomen are women and should be treated as such in any and all situations and women should protect them at all costs'.

But more and more she has people telling her she should be comfortable dating transwomen, with or without a penis and then call her a terf, homophobic etc because she disagrees. She can now see both sides more clearly. She completely feels trans women should be allowed to live their daily lives free from hate. But also believes that they should have free access to women's spaces and sports.

For dd being a lesibian isn't just about dating people who have a vagina, natural or surgery acquired. Even at her age she notices marked differences in people who grew up and socialised as male, regardless of how they identify now. She isn't attracted to those people.

She is generally fed up of lesbians being forced to the bottom of the lbgtq pile, because it's always done in favour of biological males regardless of their gender or sexuality. She doesn't want to accommodate, biological males into her dating life.

So, yes, my dd feels 'trans lesbians' impact her in a very real and damaging way. Her feelings are as valid as someone who is happy with the term trans lesbian.