Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Trans lesbian?

703 replies

Timeforatincture · 26/04/2021 18:39

My first ever post on this board. Long time reader, and have found it highly educational. Thank you everyone.

There is a pullout in today's Guardian about influential lesbians. Cameos and longer pieces. One of the longer pieces is an interview with a "trans lesbian."

AIBUin thinking that's a bit odd?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Icanflyhigh · 19/06/2021 00:02

@Ozgirl75

Surely no actual lesbian is going to be attracted to a TW though? If they wanted a penis wouldn’t they just be straight? I mean, maybe they could be friends but surely if they want to have sex then that rather precludes a penis Grin How very odd. Didn’t Eddie Izzard used to joke that he was a lesbian? Like, as a joke?! The joke being that he couldn’t be because he’s a man.
My thoughts exactly. So confused by the whole concept. More so when I'm told that gender and sexuality are unrelated Confused
334bu · 19/06/2021 00:04

* I think unless a trans woman who identifies as a lesbian is doing something to cause harm to you by identifying in the way they chose to then you really shouldn't have reason to be upset about that. Live and let live.*

So if I an able bodied person identify as disabled, this would be ok if I am not causing you harm? What about if I were to identify as a women of colour despite being born into a white family , would that be ok?

CardinalLolzy · 19/06/2021 00:09

I wonder why a fairly old thread is being resurrected now by a new poster? Their post wasn't very clear except to try and define lesbians as non-men.

334bu · 19/06/2021 00:12

Sorry did not realise it was a zombie thread. Maybe that's why post was unintelligibleGrin

MrsNewms85 · 19/06/2021 08:35

@334bu

* I think unless a trans woman who identifies as a lesbian is doing something to cause harm to you by identifying in the way they chose to then you really shouldn't have reason to be upset about that. Live and let live.*

So if I an able bodied person identify as disabled, this would be ok if I am not causing you harm? What about if I were to identify as a women of colour despite being born into a white family , would that be ok?

You have no right to tell a disabled person how they should identify, if they felt able bodied then who are you to say other wise. As for your other example give yourself head a wobble, cultural appropriation is an entirely different story.

Is a trans woman lesbian doing any TB info to harm you? Yea or no?

334bu · 19/06/2021 08:37

cultural appropriation is an entirely different story.

In what way is it different?

334bu · 19/06/2021 08:42

By the way my example was an ",able" bodied person identifying as disabled , not the other way around.
Also I would assert that a person of the male sex telling a same sex attracted female that her sexual orientation should also include being attracted to people of the opposite sex , is doing that person harm.

rumred · 19/06/2021 09:19

My thinking is that a trans woman or man who still has the genitals of their former sex is still fundamentally that sex.
I believe bethany black has fully transitioned and given up the male privileges. So personally I'm fine with treating her as a lesbian.
I went to a pride comedy event last week and the trans woman performing was definitely not what I'd view as a woman. They talked about their dick a lot. Just seemed like a man in a skirt to me.
Which made me think a lot about the issues and where I stand on them. It felt very lesbian hostile. I've seen bethany and she was completely different.

Nonmaquillee · 19/06/2021 09:25

@Giggorata

Isn't a trans lesbian a heterosexual male?
Yes, that’s my understanding too
AlfonsoTheMango · 19/06/2021 09:30

@LasagnaEater

Hey there, lesbian here! The idea of lesbianism me and non-men attracted to non-men of course, so if they don't identify as a man they can identify as a lesbian. Some lesbians don't want to date trans women and that's ok, but I my self would Grin
Good grief.

It's Humpty Dumpty World.

MrsNewms85 · 19/06/2021 09:42

@334bu

*cultural appropriation is an entirely different story.*

In what way is it different?

Wow! If I have to explain that to you then there's a bigger issue here. You still haven't answered my question about how a trans woman identifying as a lesbian hurts you?

A able bodied person claiming to be disabled could be seen as fraud if they were gaining something through deception.

If a trans woman, openly trans, tells people she is attracted to women so identifies as lesbian, who is she hurting?

Beeeeeeeeeeeeeep · 19/06/2021 09:47

Bethany black isn't a female homosexual so therefore is not a lesbian of any kind.

I was listening to a podcast called women unlocked with Susan calman (who I like) and Bethany black but I didn't realise til halfway through that BB was trans. I was pretty pissed off.

Beeeeeeeeeeeeeep · 19/06/2021 09:47

If a trans woman, openly trans, tells people she is attracted to women so identifies as lesbian, who is she hurting?

Actual lesbians. HTH

MrsNewms85 · 19/06/2021 09:48

@Beeeeeeeeeeeeeep

If a trans woman, openly trans, tells people she is attracted to women so identifies as lesbian, who is she hurting?

Actual lesbians. HTH

In what way? Please educate me.
SapphosRock · 19/06/2021 10:13

If a trans woman, openly trans, tells people she is attracted to women so identifies as lesbian, who is she hurting?

Many women, and young women in particular struggle to assert their sexual boundaries. In general they want to be kind. They are eager to please.

LGBT organisations such as Stonewall are telling young lesbians that a person born male can be included in the definition of lesbian. These are organisations that lesbians trust and have faith in.

Obviously there is nothing wrong with a trans woman and lesbian having a relationship but it would be much more useful to refer to this as a 'pansexual' relationship to avoid confusion with 'lesbian' relationships which traditionally do not include males.

LGBT organisations refuse to acknowledge this and insist that lesbian is an identity that anyone can take on.

Basically lesbians are facing pressure to sleep with males. Kathleen Stock wrote a good article about it.

www.thearticle.com/can-biological-males-be-lesbians/

YellowFish12 · 19/06/2021 10:31

You have no right to tell a disabled person how they should identify, if they felt able bodied then who are you to say other wise. As for your other example give yourself head a wobble, cultural appropriation is an entirely different story.

What?! What is this absolute cognitive dissidence?!

Appropriation of womanhood = lovely. Appropriation of another race’s culture = awful.

Given race is arguable much more ‘on a spectrum’ and much more complex than straight XX XY, personally I would have a lot more sympathy for people who felt their skin colour didn’t match their internalised feeling of race and heritage.

Deliriumoftheendless · 19/06/2021 10:34

Wow! If I have to explain that to you then there's a bigger issue here.

Oils you give it a go anyway?

Deliriumoftheendless · 19/06/2021 10:34

Could, not oils. That makes NO sense.

MrsNewms85 · 19/06/2021 10:57

[quote SapphosRock] If a trans woman, openly trans, tells people she is attracted to women so identifies as lesbian, who is she hurting?

Many women, and young women in particular struggle to assert their sexual boundaries. In general they want to be kind. They are eager to please.

LGBT organisations such as Stonewall are telling young lesbians that a person born male can be included in the definition of lesbian. These are organisations that lesbians trust and have faith in.

Obviously there is nothing wrong with a trans woman and lesbian having a relationship but it would be much more useful to refer to this as a 'pansexual' relationship to avoid confusion with 'lesbian' relationships which traditionally do not include males.

LGBT organisations refuse to acknowledge this and insist that lesbian is an identity that anyone can take on.

Basically lesbians are facing pressure to sleep with males. Kathleen Stock wrote a good article about it.

www.thearticle.com/can-biological-males-be-lesbians/[/quote]
Thank you for your kind and polite explanation. I will certainly take this away. I think what I'm uncomfortable with is the some of the comments on the thread are demonising trans women.

334bu · 19/06/2021 10:59

If a trans woman, openly trans, tells people she is attracted to women so identifies as lesbian, who is she hurting?

Noone unless the transwomen expects everyone to treat them as a real lesbian because that is homophobic.
I can believe I am whoever I want to be but I can't expect anyone else to agree with mean and treat me accordingly.

334bu · 19/06/2021 11:03

Nobody is demonising transwomen by saying they can't be lesbians, that is just a fact. What we are saying is that it is homophobic to imply that same sex females are bigots if they don't accept male partners.

Letsgetreadytocrumble · 19/06/2021 11:08

The idea of lesbianism me and non-men attracted to non-men of course, so if they don't identify as a man they can identify as a lesbian.

Lol!

Trans ideology, as crystal clear as ever Grin

andyoldlabour · 19/06/2021 11:13

MrsNewms85

Let me (man)splain very simply.

A transwoman is a human male. A lesbian is a human female. Lesbians are not sexually attracted to males, irrespective of how they present or identify.
You are mixing sex, gender and sexuality.

Giggorata · 19/06/2021 11:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TheWeeDonkey · 19/06/2021 11:21

Let me get this clear;

Describing women as Non-men is a-okay but saying that same sex attraction is based on sex is demonising transwomen?

Can someone please explain to my how this is not a deeply misogynistic and homophobic ideology?

Swipe left for the next trending thread