Could you stay married to a TRA?

[SapphosRock]

She believes TWAW, their feelings are more important than women’s rights and some lesbians have penises. Get over it. She was on here once upon a time but got permanently banned.
Everything else about the relationship is wonderful. Can we get past this? It seems like a stupid reason to get divorced. Our values used to be fairly similar but she’s got heavily involved in trans activism and I have gone the other way. Sorry for the pity party, just feel quite down about it today. Has anyone else been through similar?

TRA to the degree you describe, no, I couldn't. I don't know if it's possible for you to agree to disagree, respectfully and courteously. From what you say about your wife communicating her beliefs to your DC while wholly disregarding your stance. I fear you have an uphill task ahead of you.

I'm so sorry. It's such a sad and stupid situation for two people who love each other and their children to be in. I hope you can both find a way through it.

I’m so sorry to hear this Sapphos- I have no advice for you, only you know if what you have as a couple can cope with this (especially if you have kids and they’re being taught something you don’t agree with) but as someone who left a partner who I have a child with I can reassure you you can all get through it even if it gets tough or nasty.

I hope things work out the best they can for you.

SapphosRock

For me the most important thing to sort out would be mutual respect for each other’s position and explaining to the children that we believe different things about this topic. How you bring up your children together needs discussing because stay or leave that part is inescapable.

If the relationship was otherwise good enough, and if we could reach an agreement to disagree on that topic I personally would choose to stick it out partly because I am a believer in providing stability for children.

Out of love for you and the children would she be willing to reduce how much gender identity ideology is conspicuous in the home and in family life? Can she accept that you have different beliefs on this subject?

It might still be early days to resolve those questions, as your wife may still be adjusting to your change of opinion.

Relate counselling or similar could be a useful resource for discovering what scope there is for accommodation of each other’s different perspectives.

I wish you and your family a happy way forward for all of you.

Ah Sapphos I’m really sorry to read this. Sadly from what you said, I think it’s been coming for a while

I don’t think I could stay with someone who Genuinely believed woman is just a feeling in someone’s head. Teaching your children that is a massive deal when she knows you don’t agree.

You could agree not to talk about it but it pervades so many areas of life

What a horrible position for you to be in

I’d be fuming about the indoctrination of your dcs & wouldn’t stand for being called cis either.

Wow I have read all the replies and I am really grateful for the advice and kind words. Thank you.

Just sorting the kids' tea so will come back to the thread later.

You lot are a decent bunch of vipers, it has helped to talk. Thanks again.

I think the religious analogy is quite a good one, because we are talking about beliefs here, and also because what to teach / tell children can also be a difficult issue with interfaith marriages. I am quite religious and my husband isn't at all and it is sometimes difficult but we are respectful about it and we are honest with the children about it. I don't teach them that my perspective is "the truth" and nor does my husband, we say honestly that (for instance) I believe in God and he doesn't, and it is up to them what they believe. It's an ongoing negotiation though and something we have to keep revisiting as the children get older, ask different questions, and also our own perspectives change -- I go through phases of being more and less religious (have done all my life) and was in a 'least religious' phase when we met. I was always straightforward that I had a lot of religious history but I think that has still been a difficult transition for DH who doesn't really have any experience of religious practice. In your shoes it would really bother me that your wife is "teaching" the children her views re: gender, unless she is clearly saying "this is what I think, but some people, including SapphosRock, feel differently about it".

One side here is a belief - the other is not. The other is fact, truth and liberty. - A very important distinction to make. It is not just a matter of a difference of opinion or belief. One side is forced to accept a lie, forced to play along with a lie, and compelled to accept its own harm as a direct result of that lie.

Might be a long shot but ask her to read some of the threads on here, I'm quite stubborn in my ways and I was like your wife but after reading some threads on Mumsnet I feel very differently now.

Absolutely, and I am. I fail to understand the fascination with other people's genitals.

My what a considered position you hold. 👍

Absolutely, and I am. I fail to understand the fascination with other people's genitals.

Strangely, the only people who tend to discuss other people's genitals are those who profess to not be interested in other people's genitals. The correlation between those bringing it up and their lack of critical thinking is quite marked.

I am sure OP is really appreciative of your well articulated, balanced and knowledgable advice though.

What does cis fragility even mean? In my understanding, white fragility and male fragility are useful terms to describe the phenomenon of privileged groups getting upset, claiming victimhood and turning the focus onto them when confronted with that privilege and the reality of the non-privileged.

I don’t see how it maps to being GC at all.

Sorry for the pedantic derail, but this poor application of an otherwise valid concept to criticise your views really rankles.

I wish you the best with this. I have a male partner who gets annoyed about this topic as he sees it as me overthinking something that will never affect me. This is part of a wider disconnect whereby he just can’t cope with complex discussions or debates. That’s bad enough as I am a thinker (don’t know how else to put it), but I’d find it harder to cope with someone who had considered the issues, disagreed with me and (presumably) concluded I was transphobic.

@HarleyQuinn21

Might be a long shot but ask her to read some of the threads on here, I'm quite stubborn in my ways and I was like your wife but after reading some threads on Mumsnet I feel very differently now.

Sadly she's dyslexic and wouldn't do that. I've had articles and even a book published (dedicated to her) and she hasn't read it.

@SapphosRock

swer what a woman is without circular logic? Does she genuinely, actually believe the meaning of what she is saying or is she just aggressively “being kind”?

No she genuinely believes being a woman is a feeling and people are wrongly assigned as male or female at birth. She's teaching this to our kids too.

What about Philip Bunce, then, who's only a woman when he feels like it? Does she think he should be up for Businesswoman of the Year, even though he isn't a businesswoman every day of the week?

And what does she think about sport? Should a TW be allowed to play in women's rugby, for instance? Or boxing?

@SapphosRock

I just wanted to say that I'm going through this right now and decided to leave my marriage. My husband is completely TWAW and is a TRA. As far as I'm concerned it's 'irreconcilable differences', we will never agree on this issue. It's not been an easy decision of course, I'm nearly 60 and certainly didn't see myself starting again at my age. But, I've seen all this sh*t before under different guises and I'm still not going to accept it. Even if the rest of the world continues down this path and never comes to it's senses, I will honestly be able to say that I kept my integrity and did what I could for women and children. On the plus side, I get to live by myself for the first time in my life

@talkingdeadscot strength and solidarity to you!

I’m really sorry, Sapphos

I think a marriage can survive some quite fundamental disagreements, but only if there is a respect underpinning the disagreement. I’m not sure that it sounds as though she is being respectful towards your view of the world.

Do you think some couples counselling would help?

@Ninkanink

One side here is a belief - the other is not. The other is fact, truth and liberty. - A very important distinction to make. It is not just a matter of a difference of opinion or belief. One side is forced to accept a lie, forced to play along with a lie, and compelled to accept its own harm as a direct result of that lie.

This is kind of useless given that the people who take the other perspective would say the same thing.

Oh how dreadfully sad.

@talkingdeadscot thank you for your reply and a big to you. That must have taken a lot of courage. Wishing you all the best for your new, independent life.

I guess it's the same for any relationship where there's a strong divergence in views. Unless you agree never to discuss whatever it is, it'll be a problem over time. Exactly why you object to their views matters as well. Thinking your partner is deluded is different to thinking they're callous (neither is good, obviously!)

Seems I said something that wasn’t allowed.

I shall rephrase:

Fact, and truth, is not a matter of opinion.