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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Could you stay married to a TRA?

395 replies

SapphosRock · 22/04/2021 15:44

She believes TWAW, their feelings are more important than women’s rights and some lesbians have penises. Get over it. She was on here once upon a time but got permanently banned.
Everything else about the relationship is wonderful. Can we get past this? It seems like a stupid reason to get divorced. Our values used to be fairly similar but she’s got heavily involved in trans activism and I have gone the other way. Sorry for the pity party, just feel quite down about it today. Has anyone else been through similar?

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zzizzer · 22/04/2021 16:31

No I couldn't deal with that, because it would be like being married to someone who was hugely sexist in other ways too. It would be a basic incompatibility. I'm sorry you're facing this crossroads though.

I'm not on mumsnet as much as others and don't recognise your username but it sounds like this has been a problem brewing for a long time for you?

Cwenthryth · 22/04/2021 16:33

So many worms spring from those last posts! She genuinely thinks being a woman is a feeling? 🤯 She’s teaching your children this? She calls you cis? Those would be massive red lines for me yes! I understand you might be ok with being called cis. Most of us here aren’t though.

But all that aside...does she respect that you don’t believe. Or is your lack of belief “transphobic” or “hateful”? I think if my partner genuinely did not respect my difference of belief it would be the end for me. And if he taught any children we spawned TWAW as fact rather than “mummy believes X, mama believes Y” then I’d have a real, real big issue.

WhereYouLeftIt · 22/04/2021 16:35

"she looks at me like I've lost my mind a lot of the time."

That would be the tipping point for me. Love dies where there is no respect.

"No she genuinely believes being a woman is a feeling and people are wrongly assigned as male or female at birth. She's teaching this to our kids too."
What ages Sad.?

Helmetbymidnight · 22/04/2021 16:36

You poor thing, it sounds tough.

I think I could actually. I've lived and loved people whose politics drove me up the wall. I AM a political person, and feel strongly about this issue, so its not that, I don't know what it is - I just would think they were stupid in this area, but I would compartmentalise it from everything else.

Flowers
Ninkanink · 22/04/2021 16:41

This isn’t just a political issue though. It’s not just a difference of opinion. It is much more serious than that. On so many levels.

PiglingBlandIII · 22/04/2021 16:43

I'm so sorry to hear this Sappho and sending hugs. Only you can find out if your partnership can weather this - is it possible to call a moratorium on discussing it at all (esp if you are worried about what she is telling the kids) and then take each situation as it arises.

It is one thing discussing your opposing views to the whole ideology but it may be easier to deal with an individual situation ie. if either of you decide to do something specific to further your activism, an event or campaigning, then you talk about that specific instance and deal with it in smaller chunks.

How would she feel about your kids in mixed sex sports when they are old enough?

theThreeofWeevils · 22/04/2021 16:43

I don't think I could sustain a relationship with someone I would judge to be blind to biological and societal reality, disrespectful of my identity ('cis fragility', ffs) and who was active campaigner against my rights. But it's easy to say that in theory... In practice, if the relationship was and had been good, probably I'd try to go on with it. Probably wouldn't work long-term because I tend to pick at things, and I wouldn't be able to not see what I was trying to ignore.
Very sorry you are in the position you are, SapphosRock. Flowers & Gin

JustHereWithMyPopcorn · 22/04/2021 16:44

No. I married someone with different political views (although we've met in the middle somewhere along the way) but I could not be with someone who denied biology, ignored our lived experience and de-valued and what it is to be a woman.

MichelleofzeResistance · 22/04/2021 16:44

.......your last couple of posts changed my perspective. It would be rather like living with a partner teaching our children a religious set of beliefs as fact

That's intentionally imposing a personal adult political belief on a child, with conscious knowledge that you're taking advantage of the child's innocence to train them in a belief that you as an adult know at some degree is plain not true. In order to further your personal politics by trying to fix it in the minds of the next generation. I don't think the next generation are going to be lining up to thank us in the end. And it's utterly disrespectful of you and your beliefs.

TinselAngel · 22/04/2021 16:44

Well clearly I didn't manage to stay married to one, so no.

MichelleofzeResistance · 22/04/2021 16:47

As for 'your views and concerns for female people are .....

Difference of opinion is one thing. But that's plain disrespectful again. I'm fairly sure you're managing not to call her and her views any derogatory names implying her views and feelings are worthless.

CorvusPurpureus · 22/04/2021 16:47

Really sorry, Sapphos.

I probably couldn't, no. I'm an argumentative bugger. My marriage foundered - partly - on political & religious differences.

But I hope you guys work it out Thanks.

Ninkanink · 22/04/2021 16:48

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Ninkanink · 22/04/2021 16:49

Sorry, I’m getting carried away.

I hope you find your way through this with as little pain as possible for everyone, @SapphosRock.

Thecatonthemat · 22/04/2021 16:50

I would be very worried in case they are thinking about transitioning themselves...which can and does happen. I really hope not

littlbrowndog · 22/04/2021 16:52

I couldn’t be with someone who actually believed such stuff

It would make me think not such good thoughts about their critical skills

And especially telling my kids

Sorry Sappho so hard for you

I wouldn’t even be friends with someone who believed this either

But then that’s easy for me as I don’t have any friends or family who do

Hard for you 💐

zzizzer · 22/04/2021 16:57

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BodyMovin · 22/04/2021 17:03

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FurryGiraffe · 22/04/2021 17:04

I think I'd really struggle. My DB is gay and TWAW and the whole thing has been very difficult for our relationship. It's been discussed a couple of times, become extremely heated, and by mutual and unspoken consent we simply don't refer to it. This works because we don't see each other that much. But I've had to quietly unfollow him on Twitter because I find it so upsetting to see someone who I love so much, who is fiercely intelligent and in all other respects so critically minded in his approach to ideas, spout such misogynistic garbage.

I simply don't think I could cope with it in a spouse. I don't think the 'agree not to talk about it' tactic could work when you live in the same house, and when it's something that's important to both of you.

Ninkanink · 22/04/2021 17:05

Having said all that, your partner is a woman and whilst I feel exasperated by the women who support this ideology I also feel a great deal of sympathy. It's being done to them. Female socialisation has been exploited to groom them. The stakes are so much higher for women who dare to resist. I don't blame those who go along with it.

Yes I do feel some sympathy too. Sadly a lot of women just cannot, or won’t, see.

SmokedDuck · 22/04/2021 17:05

I think it's possible and have known people to have similar kinds of divides in a marriage, but I would say that tends to be based in a diferent way of thinking about the whole thing.

For most people in 2021, in the west, we tend to see marriage as being a relationship that is rather like best friends plus sex. That's a little reductive but the point is that we see our partner as a person we chat with, enjoy hobbies, with, have opinions on many things, often they are our main adult companion for things.

People I know who successfully navigate serious differences that emerge may have these things, and they see shared values as important, but they also don't see friendship as being really central to marriage, they think of it more like a family relationship in that sense. You might love a family member, you have responsibilities to them, maybe you live with them, but you might have really different interests, opinions, and even values. They let go of the necessity to see eye to eye in order to maintain a relationship, and probably have other people in their lies they share those things with.

Anyway, that's my thinking, if you can come to a place where your views aren't what defines your connection, it can be done if there is a desire to.

As far as this issue in particular, I wonder if it might not help to think of her as not ill-willed, but deeply and tragically mistaken. And I also wonder what the chances are of changing her perspective - it doesn't seem uncommon.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 22/04/2021 17:05

Sorry - is the person in question a girl born woman? It’s so confusing these days.

SelkieIntegrated · 22/04/2021 17:06

Why try!?
What do you want next?

toffeebutterpopcorn · 22/04/2021 17:08

I’ve just watched a video clip of a US politician confidently asserting that there are not 2 sexes... there are in fact, according to him, 6!

My head hurts.

JoodyBlue · 22/04/2021 17:09

Having experienced gaslighting previously, no I wouldn't. Because being able to tell/discuss the truth in my closest relationship is of paramount importance to me. But relationships work in lots of ways. People are different and handle things differently, so I would not judge someone for trying to fight for their relationship, if there is a relationship to save. Wishing you all the best Sapphos Flowers