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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Could you stay married to a TRA?

395 replies

SapphosRock · 22/04/2021 15:44

She believes TWAW, their feelings are more important than women’s rights and some lesbians have penises. Get over it. She was on here once upon a time but got permanently banned.
Everything else about the relationship is wonderful. Can we get past this? It seems like a stupid reason to get divorced. Our values used to be fairly similar but she’s got heavily involved in trans activism and I have gone the other way. Sorry for the pity party, just feel quite down about it today. Has anyone else been through similar?

OP posts:
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krikey · 26/04/2021 14:07

@Shedbuilder

It's been legal for lesbians to marry for a a few years now. The OP's name gives you a hint.
You didn't tell me to google it you just said her name should gove me a hint
DialSquare · 26/04/2021 14:27

It's easily done krikey. Especially if you are fairly new to the issues. I spent years reading as much as I could on this before posting on here and I'm still nowhere at the level of many of the other posters here.

Shedbuilder · 26/04/2021 15:21

Sorry, Krikey. I thought of advising you to Google it, then thought that would be patronising and assumed you would google it yourself.

SapphosRock · 26/04/2021 20:17

Oh thank you everyone for explaining me and DW are lesbians, I really should've put that in the OP.

DW's friend is still feeling very upset and shaken but thankfully no trial by social media. Can't really say any more without outing her but she is being looked after and people have her back.

It's lesbian visibility day today and a day off work so DW and I have been out and about being visible in our rainbow Birkenstocks. We had a really good chat about how LGBT organisations often centre 'womxn' and how lesbian visibility day seems to be about being inclusive to males who identify as lesbians rather than the visibility of female homosexuals.

DW even agreed that young lesbians would benefit from a day that is just focussed on their needs rather than on how they can be kind and inclusive to others.

She still thinks that biological males can absolutely be lesbians but at least there's some progress.

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 26/04/2021 20:23

small steps, but in a positive direction.

Lordamighty · 26/04/2021 20:41

She still thinks that biological males can absolutely be lesbians

Sorry for your situation Sappho but that is complete batshittery.

zzizzer · 26/04/2021 20:48

Does she know you post on mumsnet? (Just thinking that you must be identifiable in such a small, niche community?)

DaisiesandButtercups · 26/04/2021 20:49

It is great that you are spending time together and listening to each other.

It sounds really hopeful.

All the best to you both and to your little ones.

ArabellaScott · 26/04/2021 20:57

Happy Lesbian Visibility day, Sappho, to you and your DW. Glad to hear things have settled down.

GreyhoundG1rl · 26/04/2021 20:59

DW even agreed that young lesbians would benefit from a day that is just focussed on their needs rather than on how they can be kind and inclusive to others.

She still thinks that biological males can absolutely be lesbians but at least there's some progress.

How does she reconcile those two things? Confused.

SapphosRock · 26/04/2021 21:04

@zzizzer

Does she know you post on mumsnet? (Just thinking that you must be identifiable in such a small, niche community?)
Yes, though she wishes I didn't!
OP posts:
MoreThanANonMan · 26/04/2021 21:29

Greyhound G1rl One day, all this is going to make for an absolutely marvelous farce (and will be very easy money since it will write itself).

GreyhoundG1rl · 26/04/2021 21:33

@MoreThanANonMan

Greyhound G1rl One day, all this is going to make for an absolutely marvelous farce (and will be very easy money since it will write itself).
I hope I'm still alive to enjoy it 😬 🤞
DrLouiseJMoody · 26/04/2021 21:33

Hi Sappho,

I suppose I should say what happened to me. As many know, my wife died suddenly last May, and three days before we had officially separated. A major, and perhaps the only significant reason, was our differences concerning this debate. Frankly, I found my wife's thinking muddled because privately she was very clear she wouldn't date a TW but used "she." She said it was the compassionate thing to do. But, worse for her was the consequences. I lost my academic status and then ended up getting sued by a litigious lunatic. The stress eventually broke us.

HOWEVER, we talked at some length and I agreed to massively step back. I was, in my mind, done. It was that which led her to arranging to come back and talk and postponing a proper move away on the day she died (she told her sister, hours before she died, she was thinking about sorting it all out). Would I have resented that? I don't know. I was certainly done with all the fighting, so in my experience, it was less the difference in our views but about the risks that came from expressing them. At one point she was worried she'd lose professional opportunities because of being married to a reasonably well-known 'Terf' (e.g. ALL her tech colleagues use pronouns).

I do think the difference stemmed from our personality traits. For me, I took the rational, factual view and see it as a philosophical debate whereas she was much more emotionally swayed. I did, at times, feel belittled, judged, and that she was ignorant of the impact upon my experiences (her upbringing is one everyone should have but it meant she didn't, in my view, always grasp why women need single sex spaces). And yes, I did question her intelligence. All of this sounds brutal but I felt it, at the time. Only now do I have more appreciation for how conflicted she must have felt given her professional position.

I don't think it's necessarily a deal breaker providing there's understanding about where you're coming from. If she becomes an activist, or you do, that obviously risks problems. Had I shut up and just quietly voiced views to her I doubt there would have been a significant issue.

I attach the following to show the sorts of things her TRA "friends" have said - these are messages from one to Stephanie Hayden, who was suing me. Obviously, the friend thought she could make trouble for my case which is the very thing that stressed my wife out so much. Just shows the pressures though.

I really do wish you the best with it,

Louise

Could you stay married to a TRA?
Could you stay married to a TRA?
Could you stay married to a TRA?
youvegottenminuteslynn · 26/04/2021 22:16

@stackthecats

sex is material - it's how I am in the world. It's my only materially embodied self. In many respects it's the only bit of my self that is not the feelings and desires in my head. When my daughter was too young to have an 'identity' she still had a female body. When my grandmother had no 'identity' left, due to Alzheimer's, she was still a woman. That's not a feeling in someone's head or a desire or an attraction or a wish or a cultural allegiance to a set of ideas. It just is.

This made me well up and I'm not even sure why my reaction was so strong it physically resonated with me. I think it perfectly articulates how I feel about this in a way I never would have thought of explaining it. Thank you, truly. Absolutely brilliant post that I'll be saving. Thanks

stackthecats · 26/04/2021 22:53

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@stackthecats

sex is material - it's how I am in the world. It's my only materially embodied self. In many respects it's the only bit of my self that is not the feelings and desires in my head. When my daughter was too young to have an 'identity' she still had a female body. When my grandmother had no 'identity' left, due to Alzheimer's, she was still a woman. That's not a feeling in someone's head or a desire or an attraction or a wish or a cultural allegiance to a set of ideas. It just is.

This made me well up and I'm not even sure why my reaction was so strong it physically resonated with me. I think it perfectly articulates how I feel about this in a way I never would have thought of explaining it. Thank you, truly. Absolutely brilliant post that I'll be saving. Thanks[/quote]
youvegottenminuteslynn oh, thank you so much for your kind post Flowers To be honest, I've had a bit of a grim week and it has been actually really nice to find so much appreciation and solidarity on MN on these threads and issues. I've massively appreciated everyone who said this struck a chord, because I've been thinking a lot this week about my grandmother (who died a couple of years ago), and about the things that still bind all of us together as women, despite how it feels at the moment that women are under such attack on all fronts. It's amazing that we have this online space to articulate things that are so essential to women's lives. Flowers

GreyhoundG1rl · 26/04/2021 22:55

It's amazing that we have this online space to articulate things that are so essential to women's lives Flowers
God yes.

CardinalLolzy · 05/07/2021 23:39

@SapphosRock - hope you don't mind me bringing this thread back as clearly it's a tough time for you both. But been thinking of you and wondered how things were?

For anyone looking to derail - THIS IS A THREAD FROM A FEW MONTHS AGO and we are trying to be supportive on here.

MrGHardy · 06/07/2021 19:13

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dyslek · 06/07/2021 19:49

Im so sorry you went through that Louise, they are so toxic it beggers belief.

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