Genital Inspections

[ASugarr]

The Florida House passed a bill on April 14, 2021, that would ban trans girls and women from playing on high school and collegiate teams. It would also allow schools to require a genital inspection of student athletes suspected of being trans.
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This is child sexual abuse. I hope this never ends up happening in the UK. Trans girls and women deserve to play in women's sports. Trans boys and men deserve to play in men's sports. Period.

However for those who aren't comfortable doing that I don't think they should be forced to.

Why should their comfort come above fair play?

@ASugarr

I watched that video you shared and the example of Jillian Bearden. The conclusion was that post transition Jillian Bearden's overall performance was reduced by 11%

The independent stats below that I shared previously indicate that Jillian Bearden still would have retained a significant advantage over her female counterparts, even once transition was fully complete.

It is known that biological males (whose puberty and development is influenced by androgens/testosterone) are stronger by 25% to 50%, are 30% more powerful, 40% heavier, and about 15% faster than biological females.

Actually I strongly disagree. Many sports are mixed sex and women still trive and win.

Name some with links to results please?

However for those who aren't comfortable doing that I don't think they should be forced to.

Well I'm not comfortable competing against other adults. So I should be allowed to play on a kids team.

@IHateCoronavirus

Tiddlywinks?

I was always taught that a game that doesn’t require a change of shoes, or that you can do at the same as smoking is not a proper sport! This covers snooker and darts. And possibly croquet.

I just want to point out, as somebody with a trans dd, I carry my children's birth certificates around with me to pretty much every sport. As a family, we've competed at elite level in swimming, figure skating, dance, athletics, rhytmic gym, basketball, carting, and horseriding, and for all of them (bar basketball) birth certificates are required paperwork that must be produced at request during competitions to prove age. That's standard practice in sports.

It seems this has become more about transgender people in sports rather than the main subject matter which was subjecting children to genital examinations. So I'll leave you all to continue the sports debate if you wish. However I will only be replying to comments specifically on the subject of the bill.

Not all trans men and women do. Actually there are many who are okay with competing as their biological sex. However for those who aren't comfortable doing that I don't think they should be forced to.

the important thing is trans women have a choice and that women shut up and suck it up.

First comment doesn't make sense to the argument I made

I can’t see that you’ve made any coherent argument in the entire thread, so perhaps it’s a misunderstanding, but I’ll ask in simpler terms.

Serena Williams is a top female tennis player.

You are arguing that sex segregation in sports is unnecessary.

Without sex segregation none of us would have even heard of Serena Williams because if there was no sex segregation, she wouldn’t even make it into the top level of her chosen sport.

How do you justify removing women’s sports and why are you arguing to do so on a feminism board? Not really in the spirit, is it?

Here are some resources to check out on Trans men and women in sports:
Sources: Joanna Harper's study on 8 transgender athletes: pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1e6a Berman et. al: academic.oup.com/jcem/article
Joanna Harper on Trans Athletes: www.kinesophy.com/joanna-harp

Joanna Harper, The Jim Jefferies Show:

USA Powerlifting on Transgender Athletes: www.usapowerlifting.com/trans

I do not disagree with the bill in general but see no reason for genital inspection given the other ways sex can be determined.

Asugarr if they removed the genital inspection would you have no issue with the bill?

It seems this has become more about transgender people in sports

it was always about you insisting that males can compete in womens sports if they fancy.

Thought you were only replying to comments about the bill?

@ASugarr

Here are some resources to check out on Trans men and women in sports: Sources: Joanna Harper's study on 8 transgender athletes: pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1e6a Berman et. al: academic.oup.com/jcem/article Joanna Harper on Trans Athletes: www.kinesophy.com/joanna-harp Joanna Harper, The Jim Jefferies Show: USA Powerlifting on Transgender Athletes: www.usapowerlifting.com/trans

Apologies, those think didn't work so I'll try again. www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Race-Times-for-Transgender-Athletes-Harper/1e6abd2c1e03ba88e9ac8da94ea1d69ff3f4878a?p2df academic.oup.com/jcem/article/99/11/4328/2836760#62912456 www.kinesophy.com/joanna-harper-on-the-performance-of-transgender-athletes/ www.usapowerlifting.com/transgender-participation-policy/

However for those who aren't comfortable doing that I don't think they should be forced to.

Yet you're happy for biological women to be forced to play against trans women?

@ASugarr

It seems this has become more about transgender people in sports rather than the main subject matter which was subjecting children to genital examinations. So I'll leave you all to continue the sports debate if you wish. However I will only be replying to comments specifically on the subject of the bill.

If you only wish to discuss the Bill, why is your next post about transgender people in sports? I thought you didn't want to discuss that?

Also, drug testing.

In most sports, all the medalists will be drug tested, as well as at least one other random compeitor. You get drug tested by peeing in a cup while a medic watches. My 14yo dd has already peed in front of a grown woman on three separate occassions. There's no getting out of it. Yoy couldn't hide that you were trans even if you wanted to.

So the feelings of a trans woman are more important than the feelings of the other women they are competing with, potentially causing greater injury, denying placings and medals, and potentially funding and progression? Sport is not some basic human right. Sex segregation exists in sport for a very good reason, and the differences conferred by androgens in men are far from abolished by suppressing testosterone production.

@LastRoloIsMine

I do not disagree with the bill in general but see no reason for genital inspection given the other ways sex can be determined.

Asugarr if they removed the genital inspection would you have no issue with the bill?

Yes. If they made it clear that a genital inspection wasn't able to be done then I wouldn't feel as strongly against it. Although I still believe trans men and women shouldn't be forced to play in teams they don't feel comfortable in I think at least the bill itself needs to be explicitly more defined.

@ASugarr

It seems this has become more about transgender people in sports rather than the main subject matter which was subjecting children to genital examinations. So I'll leave you all to continue the sports debate if you wish. However I will only be replying to comments specifically on the subject of the bill.

That’s a shame I was really interested in finding out how sport could be kept fair/safe for biological females when playing with/competing against trans women. I wonder why we never get clarification on that bit?

@ASugarr can you direct us to where in the bill it states that a genital examination is "required" please?

All I can see is a requirement to prove biological sex, with a genital exam listed as an optional means of doing this. Other options are also given.

Not all trans men and women do. Actually there are many who are okay with competing as their biological sex. However for those who aren't comfortable doing that I don't think they should be forced to.

What about other men? Should they be forced to just play in the men's division? Given the prize money for the wimbledon women's singles is £3 million pounds I am sure there would be a lot of men who woukd feel more comfortable competing in the women's tournament. Why discriminate against those men on the basis of their gender reassignment? (discrimination goes both ways). Afterall, it is not as if there are any physical differences between them and transwomen?

Although I still believe trans men and women shouldn't be forced to play in teams they don't feel comfortable

shock news: they dont have to- if they really wont play in a same sex team they could form their own team or they could try a different hobby! who knew!

The point about using the birth certificate is the "genital inspection" has already been done and its a widely accepted proof of a child's age