Pregnant people?

[Trustisamust]

So our local NHS Trust have finally updated their guidance re allowing partners to attend pregnancy scans etc.
They now refer to pregnant people, not pregnant women.
I don't know if I am being unreasonable here but this does not sit comfortably with me?

@Erkrie

Original sort of. It's complicated.

Complicated to you possibly. But your mother's name will be on there. Without a doubt. Unless of course you were abandoned at birth and found somewhere, and thus your mother wasn't actually identifed. But I don't think that will be true, because you know who she is...

Nah its not they serious. But my mothers name technically isn't on there.

@transbadger

Okay then people on here shouldn't be discussing or talking about being transgender unless they are transgender.

You are not transgender. Why don't you lead by example and stop commenting on a community you are not a part of.

When others do I shall too 🤍

Discussing actual feminist issues is fine. But discussing things like this really aren't necessary. And some of the others I've seen just turn into spaces where people can be transphobic.

But when you don't even consider pregnancy and childbirth to be feminist issues, I'm not sure what issues you would consider permissable.

Speaking as someone who has worked with animals.... of course they don't have a gender identity. Words like "stallion", "mare" are simple shortcuts for otherwise having to say adult male horse or whatever.

Regarding what we may or may not discuss here, what counts as a feminist issue itself is up for discussion on these boards. And any issue which has the possibility to negatively impact women as a class is a feminist issue. The demands of some trans activists and the forced acceptance of gender identity belief certainly count as one of those.

If we can't use the term transgender then how do we discuss women's rights and how they affect/are affected by trans women's rights. Or indeed trans men?

Or is that part of the wider plan? That we can't discuss them? And therefore can't object?

@EdgeOfACoin

Discussing actual feminist issues is fine. But discussing things like this really aren't necessary. And some of the others I've seen just turn into spaces where people can be transphobic.

But when you don't even consider pregnancy and childbirth to be feminist issues, I'm not sure what issues you would consider permissable.

I consider them to be feminist issues. But not something like the language around it. But the fact that black women still are four times more likely to die in childbirth, choice and control on childbirth situations, the lack of pregnancy support during the coronavirus are kinda more important personally.

@WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo

If we can't use the term transgender then how do we discuss women's rights and how they affect/are affected by trans women's rights. Or indeed trans men?

Or is that part of the wider plan? That we can't discuss them? And therefore can't object?

You don't have to. Transgender rights don't stop any women's rights.

Discussing actual feminist issues is fine. But discussing things like this really aren't necessary.

Discussing things that have a direct and detrimental impact on women isn't necessary and isn't a feminist issue, seriously?

Plus by your own rules you have no business talking about anything transgender as you are not transgender. You really do tie yourself up in knots. You are not some divine arbiter of what people can and cannot discuss, nor what language they use.

@RedDogsBeg

Discussing actual feminist issues is fine. But discussing things like this really aren't necessary.

Discussing things that have a direct and detrimental impact on women isn't necessary and isn't a feminist issue, seriously?

Plus by your own rules you have no business talking about anything transgender as you are not transgender. You really do tie yourself up in knots. You are not some divine arbiter of what people can and cannot discuss, nor what language they use.

Calling those who are pregnant "pregnant people" really isn't that big of an issue.

Trans women wanting to get into single sex spaces very much affect women's rights.

@ASugarr

It's just funny that I tell you legally she isn't and yet you still fail to understand. She isn't on my birth certificate or is legally recognized as my mother anymore. She quite literally isn't legally my mother. If I died tomorrow she wouldn't be notified or anything. Not even permitted at my funeral. Like she quite literally isn't legally my mother anymore.

Do you mean you were adopted? On your birth certificate it will have her as mother, because it’s a legal document and that was the fact at birth.

So prior to adoption, legal mother. Post adoption - formerly legal mother aka birth mother.

You don't have to. Transgender rights don't stop any women's rights.

They very much do as you prove with everything you say.

Discussing actual feminist issues is fine. But discussing things like this really aren't necessary.

That's not actually your call. Other people would like to discuss it, with or without you.

@ASugarr

It's just funny that I tell you legally she isn't and yet you still fail to understand. She isn't on my birth certificate or is legally recognized as my mother anymore. She quite literally isn't legally my mother. If I died tomorrow she wouldn't be notified or anything. Not even permitted at my funeral. Like she quite literally isn't legally my mother anymore.

What? What?!?!

A birth certificate is a legal* and historical document. Your mother's name is* on your birth certificate.

If you are telling us that by some process of adult adoption her name is no longer on your birth certificate (I do not think this is possible but correct me otherwise) then she is still your mother. You may have an adoptive mother who, for all intents and purposes is your mother, but your birth mother is still your mother.

You can call her otherwise and have every right to do so but you can't wish away language and law as we know and use it.

So pregnancy is a feminist issue but men can give birth?

How does that work?

Calling those who are pregnant "pregnant people" really isn't that big of an issue.

Usual dismissiveness, it is very much an issue for those who don't want to be dehumanised and referred to as such, but then again as is so obvious with you, they don't count.

@Whatwouldscullydo

So pregnancy is a feminist issue but men can give birth?

How does that work?

The same way sexual assault is a feminist issue even though men also are sexually assulted.

Not being allowed to talk about it and not being allowed to use the word transgender are now two separate things you are asking for ASugarr.

The answer is no to both.

Happy to not use the word "transgender". Shall I call them males who identify as women? Or just refer to them as male as part of the larger group of males? Or the legal term as per the EA2010 protected characteristic of gender reassignment "transsexual"?

But where are the men fighting fir better maternity rights fir other men?

It's strange to see you get so upset about it. She wrote her name completely wrong when writing my birth certificate because she was hungover when doing it. Never changed it to her correct name. So legally it isn't correct even on my original birth certificate (although that was burnt many years ago). That's all. But I've seen lawers about having her name removed but since she wrote her name wrong it doesnt matter anyway. You happy you know now?

Because if you can't use the term cisgender then we shouldn't be allowed to use the term transgender

ASugare

Just to be clear, I find the term cisgender completely offensive and will not be described as such under any circumstances

Calling those who are pregnant "pregnant people" really isn't that big of an issue.

It's absolutely an issue to me. Or does my opinion as a woman not count? What makes you think you can decide what is and what isn't an issue for other women?

I consider them to be feminist issues. But not something like the language around it. But the fact that black women still are four times more likely to die in childbirth, choice and control on childbirth situations, the lack of pregnancy support during the coronavirus are kinda more important personally.

Shouldn't you have said black people there ASugarr? Or black parents? You can't even stick to your own rules when you start talking about something and stop "educating" on the rules.

@AlwaysTawnyOwl

Because if you can't use the term cisgender then we shouldn't be allowed to use the term transgender

ASugare

Just to be clear, I find the term cisgender completely offensive and will not be described as such under any circumstances

Okay cool. That's fine. But I am and want to be able to use it without my comments being taken down by MumsNet then. And if you find it offensive then I don't think anyone should say trans women are not women or trans men are not men as that is offensive to them and isn't tolerated.