Gender Criticals vandalise LGBT centre and deface memorial to trans woman.

[Shizuku]

This is happening in Spain.

twitter.com/KatyMontgomerie/status/1378633917482332163

twitter.com/EcosyTinta/status/1368272074972729349

If it turns out that it is a gender critical group that has done this, I for one (and many others on this board I'd imagine) will join will you to condemn the individuals who have committed criminal acts, particularly against a memorial. As Im sure you do when we see criminal acts committed by gender activists.

Absolutely

"Sex is not gender", "My oppression is not your identity" " Buying babies"

@Sophoclesthefox

I really hate vandalism.

I don’t speak Spanish and I don’t know the context, but if this was done in the name of activism that aligns with my beliefs, then I wouldn’t endorse it.

Will that do you, shizuku? I am guessing probably not, as sadly, my perception of you is that you will react and respond to this as “nobody on Mumsnet would even denounce this!! They are all lost to reason!”. Your reputation on here isn’t as an honest poster seeking debate, so it’s hard to muster up the energy to engage with you on the level.

Very happy to acknowledge any condemnation of it.

My reputation on here is based on people making up stories in their heads about me rather than on what I actually post.

Too bloody right I'd join in condemning it. If I knew who had done it I'd name them

Such shit benefits nobody and I wouldn't stay quiet if some hard of thinking individuals claimed to have done it in my name.

But until someone claims it we don't know. So, we'll just have to wait and see.

I condemn vandalism and attacking memorials.

I hope the people who did this are caught and punished according to the relevant laws in Spain.

@DimidDavilby

I trust you have made similar comments about TRAs and the many, many violent words and actions, physical assault, threats of physical assault death and rape, dehumanisation they have made against GC women? If not, why not?

I can't read Spanish but from the OP, it doesn't sound like the vandalism here was making violent or sexual threats. More a political point. Not exactly in the same league as the TRA tactics.

@Shizuku What are you views on the TRA tactics against GC women?

If this was done by GC people, the majority of other GC people will condemn their actions. I certainly would and I'd be damned annoyed that it happened. Just because I believe or support something, doesn't mean I will become an apologist for vandalism done in the name of that cause (or violence or abuse). All such behaviour should be condemned--- sadly it is not, is it?

Feminism has a long history of violence and vandalism. The suffragettes literally kicked in windows as a form of protest. More recently radical feminists (some of whom are prominent figureheads in the GC movement today) engaged in vandalism and arson.

It’s worth knowing feminist history:

My reputation on here is based on people making up stories in their heads about me rather than on what I actually post

No, no, my research loving friend, I am basing it only on what you’ve written here. You think we’re all just horrid, and your transparent attempt to bait us here doesn’t convince me any differently.

Oh the suffragettes certainly did. Maybe there is an uprising of young angry feminists that have resorted to these tactics. I'm surprised I have heard nothing of their presence though which makes me think 🤔

I hope we find out who they are either way. And of course I don't agree with vandalism from anyone.

You spelled transphobes and homophobes wrong in your op, you should ask mumsnet to correct it.

[quote RedHoodGirl]Feminism has a long history of violence and vandalism. The suffragettes literally kicked in windows as a form of protest. More recently radical feminists (some of whom are prominent figureheads in the GC movement today) engaged in vandalism and arson.

It’s worth knowing feminist history: [/quote]
What do you mean recently? Who? When? Where?

Defacing someone's memorial is beyond the llae though, it really is

And the comment hoping for cctv is the claims of false flag attack that I was predicting
Eh? False flag meaning
a deliberate misrepresentation of someone's affiliation or motives

How is hoping for CCTV to actually find out who did this a false flag?
In what context?

[quote RedHoodGirl]Feminism has a long history of violence and vandalism. The suffragettes literally kicked in windows as a form of protest. More recently radical feminists (some of whom are prominent figureheads in the GC movement today) engaged in vandalism and arson.

It’s worth knowing feminist history: [/quote]
True. But I'm not sure whether the suffragettes' vandalism and violence ultimately helped or harmed their message.

Ok so you’ve established most of us find this pretty shocking and not something we subscribe to.

Will you come out and denounce death and rape threats against natal women and denounce this effigy of Carmen Calvo?

It would be nice if they also denounced the vandalism at Vancouver Rape Relief.

@DimidDavilby

Absolutely disgusting. At least the GCs are showing their true colours! No doubt some of those here will claim it is false flag attack.

Do you think so?! A false flag.

I'd not have thought of that. Interesting idea.

I’ve no idea what thread dimid is reading, but it doesn’t seem to be this one.

I’m so over “condemning” and “denouncing”, because it all still feeds into this narrative that we have to pick a side, then stick to it like glue, never deviate from the prescribed set of beliefs, punish people that do something wrong etc etc. Let’s just...not do that.

I join the condemnation of such vandalism. I don’t believe it to be a “false flag”, mainly because I don’t imagine the aggressive element of trans activism to be so willing to call themselves misogynists just to make a point.

Similarly I don’t believe the big bearded man throwing water over an actual woman (not a building) to be a GC plant willing to physically assault a woman to make trans activists look bad:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=RizhPZ7eP0E

And I also don’t believe that all of these accounts who threatened an actual person (not a building) with rape to actually be GC sock accounts trying to make trans activists look bad. I think they are real:

medium.com/@rebeccarc/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-activists-a-story-in-screenshots-78e01dca68d

I’d like a bit more information on the translation of the graffiti on the memorial. What does that say? According to Wikipedia Cristina Ortiz was subjected to death threats for other reasons prior to death and the memorial plaque has been stolen before. What did it say to make it clear it was “Gender critical” people responsible? According my my translate app on phone it says “you are patriarchy”. Is that right?

I'm someone who believes both that sex is real and matters, and that vandalism and violence are bad. Anyone vandalising anything clearly doesn't share my beliefs, do they?

A lot of whataboutism going on here.

I was looking for the death threats (I don’t read Spanish). Are there any?

@Sophoclesthefox

I’ve no idea what thread dimid is reading, but it doesn’t seem to be this one.

I’m so over “condemning” and “denouncing”, because it all still feeds into this narrative that we have to pick a side, then stick to it like glue, never deviate from the prescribed set of beliefs, punish people that do something wrong etc etc. Let’s just...not do that.

Absolutely this. Picking sides and digging your heels in is a pretty poor way to approach debate.

I actually think graffiti is a symptom of where society goes wrong, whether it's artsy Banksy or scribble taglines. The best course of action is to look at why it is happening.

Graffiti on the memorial reads " you are the patriarchy" " Down with the Montero Law"

Defacing a memorial is awful and should be condemned. However, regarding the centre, it should be pointed out that Spain has long had a tradition of political graffiti, which this is.

No threats or insults.