Transman Prinz Chiyo Gomes splits gay community: gay man accused of hate

[Shedbuilder]

Prinz Chiyo is a transman who entered (and I'm told won, but can't confirm) the Mr Gay England competition last year:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-53936529

Chiyo has talked publicly about Chiyo's experience of sexual abuse from an early ago. Chiyo is also an icon among young girls who want to escape the burden of femininity and is celebrated on BBC's Newsbeat.

A gay man who tweets as Sheridan Sinclair recently wrote an article about Chiyo and why he objected to a someone who talks openly about their vagina and the fact they menstruate qualifying to compete in Mr Gay England. This has set off a Twitterstorm. Sheridan Sinclair has been forced to close his Twitter account and take down his article.

twitter.com/mrgayengland/status/1376101627959074821

Before he was shut down, Sheridan Sinclair pointed out that many gay men have spent large parts of their lives being told there's something wrong with them, that they should learn to love 'pussy', and that having Chiyo compete in Mr Gay England is homophobic.

Sheridan Sinclair has been reported to the police for hate crime and is expecting a visit from the rozzers this morning. Fair Cop, I hope he's been in touch with you.

And lets face it: you dug up and resurrected a post months old specifically in order to announce to women that they must shut up, sit down and 'be kind' which means in essence, suffer the harm being done to you without protest.

No. Is the short answer to that.

I am not going to weigh in on names of other performers however, I am sending a virtual hug to anyone re: Miss Carriage and others in the same vein as I think the room should have definitely been read with that one!

Would you mind clarifying what you mean with this statement please?

Are you saying that yes, it is absolutely abhorrent to take a name such as 'Miss Carriage'? Or are you telling us, women on Mumsnet, a parenting forum that we should be 'reading the room'?

Missed the Miss Carriage reference. How utterly vile, who chooses that name, for...a joke?

Someone who has never had a miscarriage and isn't capable of giving a thought to women who have, is who.

How unsurprising that this person is a man.

as a non binary person who dared to speak for a member of the LGBTQ community I have been met with hostility.

Why did you think coming onto a forum and telling people to 'Just be kind people - and if you can't please educate yourself or be quiet!' was a kind thing to do?

And what reaction did you expect to such patronising tripe?

Did you expect to be greeted with a cup of tea and a biscuit while you pontificated?

I think you'll find people are educated and just because you don't like someone opinion doesn't mean they aren't kind. Sick of this 'be kind' crap which basically equates to 'I don't agree with your opinion so therefore you shouldn't have one'
Maybe it's you who needs to educate themselves Georgia

Hi everyone,

Firstly thank you to the person (or people) who pointed out that my remark regarding myself as a non binary person came across as possibly excluding other LGBTQ+ members within this thread and in general. I sincerely apologise for any misunderstandings on my part regarding this, I would never intend to this on purpose.

I understand that people here are intelligent and well educated, my remarks and replies never meant to question that. If I came across as rude I am owning it - we can all learn and so can I, I never claim to know everything on subjects and my comment to this post was not to cause upset on purpose, while I do not appreciate some of the responses I received you are all justified to make of my comments what you will, we'll just have to agree to disagree on them if that's the case.

If I came across as rude I will of course own that, I have apologised in my previous comment also - I did not mean the comment to come across rudely. We can all educate ourselves further, I was not implying that people are not educated - we all learn by research and that was the point I was trying to get across, there was no malicious intent.

If you took the time to read this thank you

I hope you stay, now you have found us.

It would be informative all round if you did.

You can hope to change our minds and we can hope to change yours. As long as we all remain civil that would be debating at it best!

Wow

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

That's true, Holy. I don't think Freddie deserves all the credit for the maternity shit show changes, but yes, was certainly an influence in the way midwives use language in the West.

However, Freddie was talking and campaigning about a personal issue related to their female sex. That's not a thing that men worry about. I didn't see a single man comment on Freddie's situation - it's an irrelevance to them.

So, that's not acceptance, is it?

(also, good point about the money. I do hope Freddie is keeping well, it is a very difficult time to be pregnant just now. I feel for anyone managing labour and newborns and a pandemic - tough gig)

Agree, Vivarium, on all points.

(I am a bit worried about the money though. Seems unfair to hang onto that amount of money if you're not using it for the purpose it was intended/requested for...but not derailing...so yes being kind and being educated, let's get right on that 🙄)

I never brought in the comments hating anyone, you have done that yourselves my above comment is one from myself personally and I can imagine that some of you would have said exactly the same if the roles were reversed and I had stated this thread in a positive way.

What? Some of us would be as supercilious as your posts?

If you cannot see just how passive aggressive you are in your post, how patronising, that is your own issue.

Perhaps you are very used to speaking to others in a way that you have been assured by others is merely 'righteous' but frankly, if you don't think that telling posters to 'shut the fuck up' is not 'hating anyone' then maybe you need some new friends that are honest with you.

my remarks and replies never meant to question that

Give over mate, that was literally the entire point of your ill judged first post 🤣 that people here are ignorant and need educated. Never mind with the mealy mouthed platitudes about “owning it”, and the frantic back pedal.

Settle in with a cuppa, read a few threads and get a feel for the place. That is good netiquette on this and every other forum.

We can all educate ourselves further

You might find this thread useful Georgia.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Now, now chaps! Be nice!!

I was hoping to recruit, more flies with honey and all that.

But seriously, GeorgiaPass do have a read of the thread and do hang around, talk some more to us.

Thanks but I didn't do that

I have written an apology and if you don't want to accept it that's fine

I have never claimed to know everything my post was to offer a different point of view and my 'be kind' remark was to mirror those that were flying around on social media in 2021 - just because this post is regarding someone you may not care for does not mean it is not valid and I have apologised for the way I worded it

It has absolutely nothing to do with the person, it's to do with the behaviour and the wider picture.

Yeah perhaps it was ill judged but that was not the point

If my post was seen as ill judged then that's fine but how does discussion happen if we were all to agree with each other?

I don't think anyone is uneducated here - as lots of people have pointed out, my points came across incorrectly as some others all over this forum probably have, we all struggle to put things into words, especially when passion is involved.

I might just do that, I make a good cuppa if I do say so! I'm sure if I met all these people in person I would be happy to share one

If you cannot see just how passive aggressive you are in your post, how patronising, that is your own issue.

Indeed, Hellofabore, I take great exception to being patronised and told to be quiet and educate myself frankly, how bloody dare you Georgia? and as for the backpedalling We can all educate ourselves further, I was not implying that people are not educated - we all learn by research and that was the point I was trying to get across, there was no malicious intent. Who the fuck do you think you are? Who the fuck do you think you are talking to? Do you not think people on this board have fully functioning brains, do research, and have qualifications in a range of disciplines?

Take your own advice and read the room.

Yeah I completely agree - I am not saying they are a perfect person, my disagreement was just with some of the comments but we won't all see eye to eye all the time

We can all educate ourselves further, I was not implying that people are not educated - we all learn by research and that was the point I was trying to get across, there was no malicious intent.

Seriously, what is this fascination from trans activists about 'educate yourself'.

I think it must be coming from the lobby groups. That people are uneducated about a topic and if they are they will all agree.

Next I am sure will come the, get out and meet trans people for yourselves.

Because, none of us could possibly have trans people in our lives already and have 'educated' ourselves as a way of understanding the current situation.

Of course, that must be it.

Welcome to Mumsnet. I am sure you might find some very interesting discussions, but on these threads are linked many studies, many discussions about the merits of articles, cases and academic papers. I am sure you will find something of interest.

There is plenty of 'education' available for any one willing to use their own critical thinking to make their own choices about where they stand on issues.

Hoarding posted a link to a rich seam of links.

So GeorgiaPass. please do clarify what you meant about the statement you made about MissCarriage.

I think it must be coming from the lobby groups. That people are uneducated about a topic and if they are they will all agree.

If they are 'educated' they will all agree.

@GeorgiaPass

Never did I think I would be joining Mumsnet to weigh in on a discussion regarding one of my favourite performers and people in the world.

Firstly, his name is Prinx Chiyo so please at least get that right!

For anyone who queried, Chiyo did not win Mr. Gay England but did come second.

I am not going to weigh in on names of other performers however, I am sending a virtual hug to anyone re: Miss Carriage and others in the same vein as I think the room should have definitely been read with that one!

Over the second half of last year I have been blessed (yes blessed) to get to know Chiyo personally and I can confirm that these reactions are valid ones. The way others have treated him simply for taking up space in the world is abhorrent - thank goodness he rose above this and absolutely smashed 2021!

As for the people using his BPD to fuel nasty and hateful comments you should be absolutely ashamed - yes I do agree that disability does not condone certain behaviours, but haven't we all held people in the public eye accountable to answer to criticism? So why is what Chiyo did any different?

This is not about so called 'ideologies' - transitioning is a huge mentally and physically draining process not to mention an expensive one! So how have we allowed money to define what gender people are? I for one don't think this is a question of gender but of consumerism by (some) healthcare services.

Just be kind people - and if you can't please educate yourself or be quiet!

The bossiness and coercion to “believe” just never stops does it? Exhausting 🙄

What clarification do you need? This is a new thread to me and I had seen the discussion regarding the performer's name which I disagree with also and so was just highlighting that and that I hope anyone affected is ok

Does this help?

This is a new thread to me and I had seen the discussion regarding the performer's name which I disagree with also and so was just highlighting that and that I hope anyone affected is ok

I found it unclear whether you were saying that MissCarriage should be reading the room, or that posters pointing out how fucking offensive names such as that are should be 'reading the room'. And if so, what 'room' should we be reading.