Transman Prinz Chiyo Gomes splits gay community: gay man accused of hate

[Shedbuilder]

Prinz Chiyo is a transman who entered (and I'm told won, but can't confirm) the Mr Gay England competition last year:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-53936529

Chiyo has talked publicly about Chiyo's experience of sexual abuse from an early ago. Chiyo is also an icon among young girls who want to escape the burden of femininity and is celebrated on BBC's Newsbeat.

A gay man who tweets as Sheridan Sinclair recently wrote an article about Chiyo and why he objected to a someone who talks openly about their vagina and the fact they menstruate qualifying to compete in Mr Gay England. This has set off a Twitterstorm. Sheridan Sinclair has been forced to close his Twitter account and take down his article.

twitter.com/mrgayengland/status/1376101627959074821

Before he was shut down, Sheridan Sinclair pointed out that many gay men have spent large parts of their lives being told there's something wrong with them, that they should learn to love 'pussy', and that having Chiyo compete in Mr Gay England is homophobic.

Sheridan Sinclair has been reported to the police for hate crime and is expecting a visit from the rozzers this morning. Fair Cop, I hope he's been in touch with you.

There appear to be a whole cluster of vulnerabilities here - Chiyo obviously, and Sheridan who is getting it in the neck for simply stating reality, and Sheridan's husband (and, no doubt, his friends and family) who will also get caught up in the vitriol.

As women know, once the witch-hunt starts it's impossible to stop, at least until the next victim steps out of line, intentionally or unintentionally. I do feel for Sheridan, but good on him for standing up for sex-based rights - they matter for men as well as for women - and for calling out the implicit homophobia in Chiyo's actions.

As far as I can gather, the police are not giving him grief and he's got a lot of support, from the LGB community and from women who have been there, done that and are still wearing the t-shirt.

I'm really sorry for Sheridan, and all the many women who have said similar things and been likewise wrongly vilified. As for Chiyo, they have suffered sexual abuse and have a mental health condition, not to mention currently identifying as a man and working as a sex worker, which may well all be as a result of the abuse. As they identify as bisexual, perhaps they have internalised homophobia too? But saying awful things about feminists and redefining biological sex and sexuality is really damaging. Does anybody know if Chiyo won the pageant? The final was on 1st April. If they did, then perhaps more gay men will join gc feminists and wake up.

Never did I think I would be joining Mumsnet to weigh in on a discussion regarding one of my favourite performers and people in the world.

Firstly, his name is Prinx Chiyo so please at least get that right!

For anyone who queried, Chiyo did not win Mr. Gay England but did come second.

I am not going to weigh in on names of other performers however, I am sending a virtual hug to anyone re: Miss Carriage and others in the same vein as I think the room should have definitely been read with that one!

Over the second half of last year I have been blessed (yes blessed) to get to know Chiyo personally and I can confirm that these reactions are valid ones. The way others have treated him simply for taking up space in the world is abhorrent - thank goodness he rose above this and absolutely smashed 2021!

As for the people using his BPD to fuel nasty and hateful comments you should be absolutely ashamed - yes I do agree that disability does not condone certain behaviours, but haven't we all held people in the public eye accountable to answer to criticism? So why is what Chiyo did any different?

This is not about so called 'ideologies' - transitioning is a huge mentally and physically draining process not to mention an expensive one! So how have we allowed money to define what gender people are? I for one don't think this is a question of gender but of consumerism by (some) healthcare services.

Just be kind people - and if you can't please educate yourself or be quiet!

Just be kind people - and if you can't please educate yourself or be quiet!

You could have led with that, would have saved you time.

Just be kind people - and if you can't please educate yourself or be quiet!

Zombie-ish thread, but that's it in a nutshell.

Most of the women on this board have 'educated themselves' on these issues quite comprehensively. And yet we still disagree with you on certain things. That being truthful is often more important than being kind, for instance, or that people shouldn't be silenced ('be quiet') for having a different point of view.

@Beowulfa

I'd like to think your average copper has their head in their hands when instructed to investigate such "crimes".

When are the majority of LGB folk going to realise being lumped in with T is detrimental to their hard-won rights?

Many of us know.

If you know what we do about it, please do share? Since the LGBA is constantly under attack, and Stonewall is forcing the idea that you're only LGBT+ if you're politically compliant with the erasure of sex and on board with homophobia. And will force yourself into hetero sex in order to validate someone TQ+ with your body rather than, you know, want bodily autonomy or the right to be homosexual.

Otherwise you're not welcome at pride, or in many LGBT+ captured groups.

Just be kind people - and if you can't please educate yourself or be quiet!

And your 'kindness' to LGB people is where exactly?

Get stuffed with your 'be quiet'. Truly. Stuff it. How bloody dare you?

Oh Wimmins of Mumsnet - ye have been told - BE BLOODY KIND!!!!

Well, sweetie, you have lept into something of a woman cave here and we won't be told to play nice, to educate ourselves or to shut the fuck up.

If you want to discuss something try again, without the sermonising, because

transitioning is a huge mentally and physically draining process not to mention an expensive one! So how have we allowed money to define what gender people are? I for one don't think this is a question of gender but of consumerism by (some) healthcare services.

is probably something we could all agree upon, at least partially!

But that would mean you accepting the truth of this place. We don't hate trans people. Nor do we deny their reality, existence etc.

We just want to protect womens rights.

And have sympathy for gay men when they have their world invaded in the same way that women's spaces have been invaded.

Bugger.

And a Zombie thread to boot!

It is interesting though, the pushback that trans men and female NB people get when they try to join the XY gang.

This person hasn't been accepted by the gay men, despite being placed in the competition.

There was a trans man in a sauna in ?Brighton (probably Brighton) who got kicked out on account of not being male. The TM complained and there was an apology, but it doesn't seem that the TM was then accepted into the Brotherhood Of The Sauna.

I can't think of a single example of a female person with a gender difference who has influenced anything outside the trans community.

Stephen Whittle and James Morton have been very involved with politics and policy more's the pity but only with trans stuff, which is so small it's practically "hobby politics".

Fox Fisher and Dr Ronx have done some media stuff but nothing of real note or influence.

Freddie McConnell has done a lot of complaining but hasn't changed anything (actually, there's a point, was Freddie not supposed to be going to Scandinavia to have a baby so Feddie could be "father" on the baby's birth certificate? I guess that might have been covided, not sure I'd fancy travelling when heavily pregnant or with a newborn during a pandemic that has killed mothers and babies)

So, there's that.

Trans women win awards and make money.

IT's almost as if there is a difference that the men who are in charge of our sexist systems can spot...

Oh right well if I am bad person for commenting on a thread that is open to all I truly apologise - but I'm not taking it back

I did not mean to offend - but we have had all the 'be kind' messages due to other members in the public eye having mental health issues and unfortunately in some cases losing their lives to the feelings this can cause.

I am not meaning to insult anyone's intelligence but could argue that by responding to me in this way you have proved your own point - as a non binary person who dared to speak for a member of the LGBTQ community I have been met with hostility.

I never brought in the comments hating anyone, you have done that yourselves my above comment is one from myself personally and I can imagine that some of you would have said exactly the same if the roles were reversed and I had stated this thread in a positive way.

Georgia - where is the hostility?

Don't see it. You're not being agreed with, but I don't see any hate.

Do report it, we don't tolerate transphobia here.

Georgia - would you be able to comment on what I said? That female NB or TM are not yet accepted into male spaces?

Am i wildly wrong? Is there a camaraderie with you and men and a thriving dating pool of gay men dating TM?

I am not meaning to insult anyone's intelligence but could argue that by responding to me in this way you have proved your own point - as a non binary person who dared to speak for a member of the LGBTQ community I have been met with hostility.

You could also argue that coming on to a board and using your first post to scold intelligent people and tell them to shut up is rude, sexist (bet you wouldn't approach Piston heads in this way) and likely to get an unfavorable response.

But sure, it's purely bigotry

Bad person? Take a deep breath, some are disagreeing with you. Nobody is passing moral judgement on you!

But if you want to continue with the 'losing lives' schtick I might change my mind.

You have been rude. Own it. Telling any group of people to educate themselves or be quiet is rude in anyone's book. To do so on a forum set up for and populated by a group of people you know don't agree with you is astoundingly self centred. Don't start greeting because you were rebuked for it.

And you haven't dared anything. This is an anonymous forum. You need dare nothing.

Also, and this is a side issue...but a real bug bear of mine

l I truly apologise - but I'm not taking it back

that's not an apology.

Hi GeorgiaPass, and welcome to MN FWR.

If you came on here advocating for bog standard MRA values you presumably wouldn’t be surprised to encounter a less than welcoming response.

What you need to understand is that the ideology you promote is as hateful in its own way as bog standard MRA ideology. Worse, in some ways, because it’s being touted as “progressive” and given credence and being allowed to inform infinite areas of public policy, at great detriment to women and girls and GNC children. Whereas straightforward MRAs aren’t given the time of day in liberal circles.

I’m presuming that gender identity aside, your sex is female, and the misogyny that is driving you is (tragically) internalised misogyny.

If that’s the case, then I suggest you stick around and talk to the women here, because we’ve all been there.

You could learn a lot from us.

I suggest you stick around and talk to the women here, because we’ve all been there.

This is true. We have all been there. Takes a lot to see it in ourselves. But once seen it cannot be forgotten.

I, as you can plainly see, am still at the sweary stage of self knowledge

Georgia, please read the thread before throwing about your insults.
Even if its only to seem a bit more grown up.

@GeorgiaPass

Never did I think I would be joining Mumsnet to weigh in on a discussion regarding one of my favourite performers and people in the world.

Firstly, his name is Prinx Chiyo so please at least get that right!

For anyone who queried, Chiyo did not win Mr. Gay England but did come second.

I am not going to weigh in on names of other performers however, I am sending a virtual hug to anyone re: Miss Carriage and others in the same vein as I think the room should have definitely been read with that one!

Over the second half of last year I have been blessed (yes blessed) to get to know Chiyo personally and I can confirm that these reactions are valid ones. The way others have treated him simply for taking up space in the world is abhorrent - thank goodness he rose above this and absolutely smashed 2021!

As for the people using his BPD to fuel nasty and hateful comments you should be absolutely ashamed - yes I do agree that disability does not condone certain behaviours, but haven't we all held people in the public eye accountable to answer to criticism? So why is what Chiyo did any different?

This is not about so called 'ideologies' - transitioning is a huge mentally and physically draining process not to mention an expensive one! So how have we allowed money to define what gender people are? I for one don't think this is a question of gender but of consumerism by (some) healthcare services.

Just be kind people - and if you can't please educate yourself or be quiet!

please educate yourself or be quiet!

This, Georgia.

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

It is interesting though, the pushback that trans men and female NB people get when they try to join the XY gang.

This person hasn't been accepted by the gay men, despite being placed in the competition.

There was a trans man in a sauna in ?Brighton (probably Brighton) who got kicked out on account of not being male. The TM complained and there was an apology, but it doesn't seem that the TM was then accepted into the Brotherhood Of The Sauna.

I can't think of a single example of a female person with a gender difference who has influenced anything outside the trans community.

Stephen Whittle and James Morton have been very involved with politics and policy more's the pity but only with trans stuff, which is so small it's practically "hobby politics".

Fox Fisher and Dr Ronx have done some media stuff but nothing of real note or influence.

Freddie McConnell has done a lot of complaining but hasn't changed anything (actually, there's a point, was Freddie not supposed to be going to Scandinavia to have a baby so Feddie could be "father" on the baby's birth certificate? I guess that might have been covided, not sure I'd fancy travelling when heavily pregnant or with a newborn during a pandemic that has killed mothers and babies)

So, there's that.

Trans women win awards and make money.

IT's almost as if there is a difference that the men who are in charge of our sexist systems can spot...

Not wanting to derail but to answer - Freddie has influenced maternity policy in the NHS Brighton and raised £10k to give birth in Sweden. Not sure what happens to the money since that doesn't seem to be happening. Do you have to complain to get your money back or is a crowdfunder checked by the platform for not meeting the outline of what they were using the money for?

I don't think the separate fundraiser for the filming project got as far but Freddy did seek to raise an extra £10k for that.

Hi Georgia.

Welcome to Mumsnet.

Hell of a first post!

It’s quite a leap to assume that everyone here has arrived at their position through woeful ignorance. Quite rude, really.

The point that users here were making is that we disagree that it is acceptable to shame gay men for objecting to the homophobia inherent in the concept that a vagina should form part of their sexuality, and that a female bodied person is a gay man.

Did you understand that bit in your leap to shame everyone here?

Your friend may well be lovely, but that’s not what is at issue here. I believe that gay men have the right to assert their social and sexual boundaries as to who and what they are. That is all.

Nobody here hates you, nobody here thinks you are a bad person, nobody here will prevent you from comme ting, but equally, nobody here is going to immediately capitulate to you meaningless platitude to “be kind”. YOU be kind, too, then- be kind to Sheridan and other gay men!

PS, did you ever hear the theory that when there is a “but” in the sentence, everything before it is a lie? your latter post has three paragraphs doing this, it’s a masterpiece of the genre!

That's true, Holy. I don't think Freddie deserves all the credit for the maternity shit show changes, but yes, was certainly an influence in the way midwives use language in the West.

However, Freddie was talking and campaigning about a personal issue related to their female sex. That's not a thing that men worry about. I didn't see a single man comment on Freddie's situation - it's an irrelevance to them.

So, that's not acceptance, is it?

(also, good point about the money. I do hope Freddie is keeping well, it is a very difficult time to be pregnant just now. I feel for anyone managing labour and newborns and a pandemic - tough gig)

@GeorgiaPass you say "as a non binary person who dared to speak for a member of the LGBTQ community I have been met with hostility."

Can I challenge the assumption within this response that no one here is a lesbian, gay or bisexual? In addition, many women posting here are "gender non-conforming" as some would define it, or put more clearly, simply refuse to kow-tow to oppressive sex-based stereotypes.

What additional weight to your argument does your identification as "non-binary" add? And why do you see a refusal to bow to your commands as "hostility"?

As an L person Georgia, I found your post unkind, thoughtless and rude to LGB people, arrogant in its assumptions and righteousness, and absolutely oblivious to the depth of the issues and the wider impacts of them.

If you say rude, thoughtless things to people that supports an agenda that has homophobia and misogyny lurking very largely within it, scolding and attempting to shame and silence them for voicing the impact upon them - you cannot really be surprised and act as if you are the injured party when they tell you what they think of your actions.