Are there any none-gender critical people on this board?

[Skyliner001]

Inspired by the appearance of a couple of none GC people in other threads I wondered how many are out there on this board?

😊

[RagzReturnsRebooted]

@Thelnebriati

This is the Feminist chat board, and gender is used to oppress women.

Sex is the why, gender is the how.

I kind of disagree with this, surely women (adult human females) are opressed because of our biology (sex) as we can be raped, impregnated, we bear and raise children, we are smaller (generally, not me) and tend to be physically weaker than men. Gender can certainly be a way to reinforce that, but if I chose to present with a male gender (somehow) I would still experience those things.
I consider myself gender critical in the sense that I don't agree with gender stereotypes of anything like clothes, jobs but I don't think getting rid of all of that would magically solve all the problems of sexual inequalities.

[midgeswithnofingernails]

Gender is part of the how

[MonkeyNotOrgangrinder]

MissBarbary what makes you think I'm rattled? I'm not the one whose only argument is 'be nice, agree with me or I'll accuse you of sneering'
As for you not being able to understand or critically analyse what she was saying, that's hardly her fault, is it 🤷‍♀️

[MissBarbary]

For someone who isn't "rattled" you seem to feel the need to spend time demonstrating how not "rattled" you are.

I see your not being "rattled" includes inventing quotes and inaccurate paraphrasing and the almost obligatory response from a certain type of "gender critical" feminist- that anyone not toeing the line is just not intelligent enough to understand it, on top of your original wild assumption that I'm a TRA and/ or a man.

[MonkeyNotOrgangrinder]

Lol, OK, you're cool as a cucumber and not rattled AT ALL. I get it

[MissBarbary]

@MonkeyNotOrgangrinder

Lol, OK, you're cool as a cucumber and not rattled AT ALL. I get it

Sorry, I didn't realise I was talking to a teenager. I mean you presumably are a teenager? I can't imagine an actual grown-up thinks "Lol" adds weight to any point they are making.

[picklemewalnuts]

Some men find it hard to say what a woman is, but they still know what a woman is for!

[DisgustedofManchester]

@Skyliner001

Inspired by the appearance of a couple of none GC people in other threads I wondered how many are out there on this board?

😊

I'd say not many... lol , its really a Gender Critical Board as it boosts too many non feminists to be feminist, unless of course feminism is 99% about stopping trans women being called women and forcing transmen to be lesbian women, even if they are actually gay trans men.. In which case, nailed it.

[Lambside]

To me GC has always been gender (stereotypes) critical and I first became strongly GC shortly after the birth of my first child when I realised the impact that those stereotypes were having and would have on her for the rest of her life.
She's 21 now.

[Artesia]

@Skyliner001

Inspired by the appearance of a couple of none GC people in other threads I wondered how many are out there on this board?

😊

Not many I'd hazard. Surely they'd be too busy painting their nails, choosing what to wear (it IS the hardest thing about being a woman after all), doing the housework and generally conforming to societal expectations to worry their pretty little heads about Feminist Chat....

[adviceseekingnamechanger]

I'd say not many... lol , its really a Gender Critical Board as it boosts too many non feminists to be feminist, unless of course feminism is 99% about stopping trans women being called women and forcing transmen to be lesbian women, even if they are actually gay trans men.. In which case, nailed it.

If you think that's what these boards are about then I think your reading comprehension skills are seriously lacking. Also, why would a gay trans man be forced to be a lesbian if they're attracted to men? Who on earth is suggesting this?

[PerkingFaintly]

Interesting thread, and some excellent exposition.

A couple of years ago I noticed (and said) on MN that some people who were plain ol' anti-transpeople had clearly noticed the discussion by MN feminists who were critical of gender stereotyping and of its use in trans issues, and had assumed that "GC" was a code for anti-trans.

Such anti-trans posters rocked up here expecting to find people in agreement with them.

It has sometimes been necessary to ask posters what, exactly, they mean by "GC", because of this misuse of the term.

The most irritating example, on and off MN, being certain people being held up as "GC", who are both anti-trans and pro-gender-stereotyping.

[PerkingFaintly]

NellWilsonsWhiteHair , you are articulating so much of what I think.

[ImpatiensI]

I'd say not many... lol , its really a Gender Critical Board as it boosts too many non feminists to be feminist, unless of course feminism is 99% about stopping trans women being called women and forcing transmen to be lesbian women, even if they are actually gay trans men.. In which case, nailed it.

Good grief, what are you talking about??

[CappuccinoCounter]

I would probably categorise my gender as 'none', if I got to define it. And you appear to be critical of women like me. So I guess you're right, and that does make you none-gender critical. I think most people here are none-gender approving.

[Helleofabore]

This has been an interesting thread.

It seems that so many people have the belief that women = adult human female. And for the most part recognize that there are conflicting issues between the rights that activists (not necessarily trans people) want and those for supporting, protecting and providing opportunities for women and girls.

The difference does seem to be the extent of who can be considered a woman for those areas where some feel lower boundaries are ok. Toilets and changing rooms seem to have been yet again brought up.

For those who believe that ‘passing’ transwomen are ok to use women’s toilets, the whole issue is - who arbitrates who passes and who doesn’t? What about women who need toilets to NOT be open to any males? And do you advocate for an alternative solution rather than throwing women who have need of a strict single sex space out of their needed space?

What do you propose as a solution because by the sounds of it, many of you have thought enough about it?

[PerkingFaintly]

And LOL at the OP declaring the thread derailed by... posters saying they're critical of gender stereotypes.

They are directly answering your question, OP. Or are you another of those who struggles with what "GC" means?

[AvocadoBathroom]

[quote Skyliner001]@NellWilsonsWhiteHair That happens to me sometimes with the board! Great points, can see the dilemma with not just picking a side. Like you I like to look at individual issues rather than pick a side.

This thread has been derailed as expected, so I'll head to other feminist boards 😊[/quote]
Maybe head to the "feminist" boards where men are centered in everything? Is that what you mean?

[AvocadoBathroom]

@Helleofabore

This has been an interesting thread.

It seems that so many people have the belief that women = adult human female. And for the most part recognize that there are conflicting issues between the rights that activists (not necessarily trans people) want and those for supporting, protecting and providing opportunities for women and girls.

The difference does seem to be the extent of who can be considered a woman for those areas where some feel lower boundaries are ok. Toilets and changing rooms seem to have been yet again brought up.

For those who believe that ‘passing’ transwomen are ok to use women’s toilets, the whole issue is - who arbitrates who passes and who doesn’t? What about women who need toilets to NOT be open to any males? And do you advocate for an alternative solution rather than throwing women who have need of a strict single sex space out of their needed space?

What do you propose as a solution because by the sounds of it, many of you have thought enough about it?

"Toilets and changing rooms seem to have been yet again brought up." because it's about women and girls having safe spaces. If you saw a girl going into a women's toilet and a few minutes later an adult man walked in what would you do?

At any other time in history, the sensible response would be to check the girl was safe. Why is that?

[RufustheSniggeringReindeer]

@PerkingFaintly

NellWilsonsWhiteHair , you are articulating so much of what I think.

Yes, some excellent posts

I know people say this is an echo chamber but many of us have a wide variety of views

[MeltsAway]

It does not really define my feminism and I feel forced into it. In the past, in the 70s, 80s and for most of the 90s all feminism was gender-critical by default. No need to mention it.

That’s how I feel about it @YetAnotherSpartacus

[OldCrone]

@MeltsAway

It does not really define my feminism and I feel forced into it. In the past, in the 70s, 80s and for most of the 90s all feminism was gender-critical by default. No need to mention it.

That’s how I feel about it *@YetAnotherSpartacus*

Agree with this.

OP, what aspect of gender stereotyping do you view as beneficial for women?

[Anovaneway]

As for you not being able to understand or critically analyse what she was saying,

MissBarbary didn’t say she didn’t understand or couldn’t critically analyse. You (ostensibly) misunderstood and then incorrectly reflected back what she didn’t say.

[PerkingFaintly]

@YetAnotherSpartacus

I'm 'gender critical' but this is only a term I have used in the past year or two. It does not really define my feminism and I feel forced into it. In the past, in the 70s, 80s and for most of the 90s all feminism was gender-critical by default. No need to mention it.

Yep, another tick for this.