Suicide rate of those who have undergone reassignment

[Wandawomble]

Noticed a comment on the Times article recently posted - “The most thorough follow-up of sex-reassigned people—extending over 30 years and conducted in Sweden, where the culture is strongly supportive of the transgendered—documents their lifelong mental unrest. Ten to 15 years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to 20 times that of comparable peers.”

Can we find more information about this?

@Steph751

No, but they don't need to be an adult to know they are gay, trans or both.

But how old do you think they need to be? You've said pre-pubescent, but just how young?

Some people, like Diane Ehrensaft, think very young children (even babies) can know they're trans. Do you also believe this? If not, how old do they need to be before they're old enough to know?

I don't think there needs to be a lower age limit to have an awareness. It's not something people need protecting from. I don't know about the baby thing, I'm not aware of any memory before being 3 or 4. I started to have an awareness and a recognisable discomfort at about 5 years old. I definitely couldn't articulate it at that age though. I was probably about 10 or 11 when it all made some sort of sense, about the same time I became aware that I fancied boys. Neither were going to set me up for a happy adolescence but, it turned out okay in the end. I think it information had been a more available and in a more supportive environment I may have been able to join the dots a couple of years earlier.

@Steph751

I don't think there needs to be a lower age limit to have an awareness. It's not something people need protecting from. I don't know about the baby thing, I'm not aware of any memory before being 3 or 4. I started to have an awareness and a recognisable discomfort at about 5 years old. I definitely couldn't articulate it at that age though. I was probably about 10 or 11 when it all made some sort of sense, about the same time I became aware that I fancied boys. Neither were going to set me up for a happy adolescence but, it turned out okay in the end. I think it information had been a more available and in a more supportive environment I may have been able to join the dots a couple of years earlier.

An awareness of what? That you wanted to have your body altered to look like the opposite sex? Or that you hated your body? Don't you think this need to have something irreversible done to your body should be challenged and the reasons for it explored? Especially in a child of 5.

Realising around the time of puberty who you are attracted to is completely different. You must be able to see this.

Aside from all that, I'm often interested to know why some people believe we can be trans adults but not trans children almost as if they can place an 18 rated certificate on a well documented medical condition?

For me, it’s a question of whether trans is used as it once was, to mean someone who is transitioning (medical pathway of some kind) or whether we accept that trans is some invisible and ill-defined mental state.

The problem lies in the sheer vagueness of the latter description. For what it’s worth, I don’t believe children should be on a medical pathway as that is a decision that requires full adult understanding of the long-term, very significant effects.

I also think society would be much healthier if the lines between clothes and styles for boys and girls were differentiated less and anyone could wear anything they wanted. I think the pressure to transition would be much lower if there was no stigma if boys wanted to wear dresses and play with soft toys. In a society where that was wholly acceptable, then I think it would be much easier for children to reach adulthood without making the choice as to whether they want to pursue a medical pathway.

It’s recognised that stigma causes mental health problems in those who don’t conform to gender norms, but I suspect stigma at a very young age, when the sense of who we are is being formed, might well be a very significant driver in the formation of gender dysphoria.

I wouldn't say it needs an adult understanding any more than being gay or knowing you are not trans does

There are numerous accounts from people ( who grew up to be gay/lesbian) who when children and adolescents would have jumped at the chance of being trans, if that narrative had been a common or available one at that time.

The actor Rupert Everett, for instance , talks about this. and many women here have spoken about the same; before they matured and realised they were lesbians, or simply gender non-conforming females.

Lots/most of gay people have struggled with their feelings around identity and sexuality when young.....and many much older people even entered heterosexual marriages in order to avoid or suppress the reality.

What we see in more recent times is many young women, who have first come out as lesbian, then move on towards coming out as trans.
There is most definitely an element of social contagion about this. I imagine you might say that many of these young women were not really trans ( especially the many who then go on to detransition/desist); but they certainly felt convinced enough, and their adult counsellors and medical advisors were obviously happy enough to perform mastectomies and hysterectomies on them.

We all utilise and adopt the dominant narratives available in our time, in order to better express ourselves. This has always been the case, throughout history.

I don't believe there is trans agenda anymore than there was ever a gay agenda. Just a small minority pushing for long yearned for progress. It's a term that carries with it negative connotations though so I suppose it's a useful bit of language for journalists to use to gee up their readership a little

in this case the journalists are taking their lead from the grassroots movement of people who are maybe involved with services for women and children, for example; or from people, including many of the people who post here, who have been at the sharp edge of 'matters' in their personal and professional lives.

There is definitely an agenda, otherwise politicians such as Crispin Blunt would not have to act so consciously with deception, in order to push things, which really must be debated, through parliament without public notice. There are lots of funds coming out of the U.S, particularly, to further this agenda.

Justhadathought
There is most definitely an element of social contagion about this. I imagine you might say that many of these young women were not really trans ( especially the many who then go on to detransition/desist); but they certainly felt convinced enough, and their adult counsellors and medical advisors were obviously happy enough to perform mastectomies and hysterectomies on them.

This is a factor I find very worrying. A hysterectomy is not something to go into without a great deal of thought, unless not having one is life-threatening in some way. (No general anaesthetic surgery ought to be, really.)

As an adult in her thirties with three children I had a long and difficult struggle with various doctors to convince them that I didn't want any more children and I wanted to be sterilised please. They constantly wished me to affirm that I really meant it, that even if one of my children were killed in an accident I would still mean it, and so on.

It seems as if the incidental sterilisation of women in their teens has now become a matter of unimportance.

Why should this be? What is is about a childless female of that age which makes her able to confirm with confidence she will never want to have even one child, when a fully adult woman was thought to be so unable to confirm that she would not want more children? The double standard in this does seem to me to be a matter for concern.

As an adult in her thirties with three children I had a long and difficult struggle with various doctors to convince them that I didn't want any more children and I wanted to be sterilised please. They constantly wished me to affirm that I really meant it, that even if one of my children were killed in an accident I would still mean it, and so on

Indeed! Since November last year I have been having monitoring and treatment for post menopausal bleeding. Thankfully, the histology reports came back 'benign'. I suggested to my consultant that I may like to have a hysterectomy; after all I am post menopausal and can no longer bear children, and I felt it may be better to have my uterus removed as a precaution against further symptoms.

I was told that there were no valid clinical reasons for this serious procedure, and that furthermore it was a procedure with the potential for serious risk or side effect. I decided not to proceed with this request; but have since had more spotting and am now scheduled for another scan on Monday, where we will once again discuss the possibility.

I don't believe there is trans agenda anymore than there was ever a gay agenda. Just a small minority pushing for long yearned for progress.

But progress to what exactly? What's the end goal here? What needs to happen on the ground for you to say it's been achieved?

I knew more than one gay who was beaten to death on the street for being gay.

So far I know nobody trans who has suffered that fate.

There was a certain amount of urgency about the GLF.