Suicide rate of those who have undergone reassignment

[Wandawomble]

Noticed a comment on the Times article recently posted - “The most thorough follow-up of sex-reassigned people—extending over 30 years and conducted in Sweden, where the culture is strongly supportive of the transgendered—documents their lifelong mental unrest. Ten to 15 years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to 20 times that of comparable peers.”

Can we find more information about this?

I imagine for many a sex change is seen as the solution to all of their problems and so when it isn’t they can’t handle it. These are often the most vulnerable people in society - We need to start treating gender dysphoria as part of an overall MH condition rather than just treat it with hormones and surgery. That should be the very last part!

@Shizuku

Here's your sentence:

"Gender doesn't cause distress for trans people"

Here's what the psychologists actually say:

"Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling"

Contrast and compare. Take your time. Think hard about the word "many".

I hope you are aware that gender dysphoria has been listed in the DSM since 1980. So American psychologists seem to agree it is as mental illness.

"I hope you are aware that gender dysphoria has been listed in the DSM since 1980."

You are confusing being trans with having gender dysphoria.

Shizuku, you are aware that psychiatrists at one point collectively thought it was a good idea to perform lobotomies? Scientists do, in reality, get things wrong sometimes. I trust the scientific process overall but there's 'what American psychologists say' (at this point in time) and there's reality.

Wanting to cut a healthy body part off is not healthy or normal.

@FreyaFolkvangr

Shizuku, you are aware that psychiatrists at one point collectively thought it was a good idea to perform lobotomies? Scientists do, in reality, get things wrong sometimes. I trust the scientific process overall but there's 'what American psychologists say' (at this point in time) and there's reality.

Wanting to cut a healthy body part off is not healthy or normal.

So you select for yourself which parts of the scientific consensus should be acknowledged based on your personal opinions. You can do that if you like, but it's not a strategy that people will take seriously.

You are confusing being trans with having body integrity identity disorder BIID. They are completely different. For a start, not all trans women feel the need to have surgery, secondly, those who do, don't want "penis amputation", they want a reconfiguration of their genital tissues into a more typically female arrangement.

You could ask a psychologist to confirm that, but as you only believe psychologists when they tell you something you already agree with, I guess that won't work.

"For a start, not all trans women feel the need to have surgery,"

So what makes them trans then?

Your arrogance and ignorance is disturbing.

@BlueLipstickRocks

"For a start, not all trans women feel the need to have surgery,"

So what makes them trans then?

Your arrogance and ignorance is disturbing.

They are trans because their gender identity doesn't match the sex they were assigned at birth. Surprised that could be new information to a trans person, but there you go.

They are trans because their gender identity doesn't match the sex they were assigned at birth.

Sex is not assigned at birth, it is merely observed. Often it can be observed in utero.

Back to the subject of the thread - that suicide figure makes me tremendously sad.

@Wrongsideofhistorymyarse

Back to the subject of the thread - that suicide figure makes me tremendously sad.

It is sad. As the scientist who led the study said:

"The aim of trans medical interventions is to bring a trans person’s body more in line with their gender identity, resulting in the measurable diminishment of their gender dysphoria. However trans people as a group also experience significant social oppression in the form of bullying, abuse, rape and hate crimes. Medical transition alone won’t resolve the effects of crushing social oppression: social anxiety, depression and posttraumatic stress."

"What we’ve found is that treatment models which ignore the effect of cultural oppression and outright hate aren’t enough. We need to understand that our treatment models must be responsive to not only gender dysphoria, but the effects of anti-trans hate as well. That’s what improved care means."

Transition does help though, as you can see from multiple studies:

whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/%20what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people%20/

"They are trans because their gender identity doesn't match the sex they were assigned at birth. Surprised that could be new information to a trans person, but there you go."

Gender non conformity is not trans.

By the way sex is not "assigned" so let's drop that nonsense.

@BlueLipstickRocks

"They are trans because their gender identity doesn't match the sex they were assigned at birth. Surprised that could be new information to a trans person, but there you go."

Gender non conformity is not trans.

By the way sex is not "assigned" so let's drop that nonsense.

"Gender non conformity is not trans."

I know - sick of explaining that one to people. But then, if you think gender identity is the same as gender non-conformity, maybe I need to explain it again.

"By the way sex is not "assigned" so let's drop that nonsense."

That's just the word we use for the announcement the midwife makes. You can use a different word if you like - I don't mind.

"
I know - sick of explaining that one to people. But then, if you think gender identity is the same as gender non-conformity, maybe I need to explain it again."

Rest assured I don't need you to explain anything. Someone needs to be explaining things to you.

"Someone needs to be explaining things to you."

Go on then.

Saw this on Facebook this morning. This poor mum and poor child have been lied to and duped IMO by those who should "first do no harm". So sad.

That's awful Campervan predictable, but still tragic. As a parent I jus feel so sorry for these children and their families who now have to navigate a life compromised because the people who were supposed to consider their best interests didn't.

@Campervan69

Saw this on Facebook this morning. This poor mum and poor child have been lied to and duped IMO by those who should "first do no harm". So sad.

'Be Kind'

How is it kind to lie to somebody and promise them something they cannot have?

@shizuku Are you ever going to go back to the many other threads you have popped up on, look at the responses you got and answer the questions people have asked you? Or are not actually going to engage with anything anybody says that doesn't fit your very narrow view of the world?

So the 'psychological distress' we are constantly told about DOESN'T exist then? (ergo it it not a psychological problem?).
This is coming from people who want our very words altered so that they are not 'triggered' by breasts, sanitary products, womens services and health providers etc? The word 'mother' is apparently triggering to some? Presumably that is because of mental distress . You can't have it both ways.
And you can't have it both ways on the science either. You say we've got to respect the scientists who came up with that definition you quoted, and yet the trans community routinely undermines scientists who confirm that sex is binary, and unchangeable. Which is it? Are the scientists wrong or right? Or just wrong on the bits you don't want to believe?

The actual doctors and scientists who define psychological disorders say you're wrong. This is from the American Psychological Association: The actual doctors who did both of my friends surgeries (sorry, that's 2 friends, up to phalloplasty but not neo vagina, respectively) said exactly what @BlueLipstickRocks said.

And again, you supply a link, text that gainsay's your position. You said You are confusing being trans with having gender dysphoria. then added something about GIID

Then linked and posted:

The aim of trans medical interventions is to bring a trans person’s body more in line with their gender identity, resulting in the measurable diminishment of their gender dysphoria.

Which bit of that are you espousing? Or, what the hell were you trying to say?

And you know that bit about arrogance? You seem to be telling a transperson what they can and cannot believe as a trans person

Be ye pot or kettle, beware the cap that fits!

I don't think the statistic is surprising but it is tragic. I believe that there are many issues that that people who go down this route may have and that really this issue is not the fundamental issue they have. Counselling and non-invasive treatment should be the norm, the fact that surgical/ drugs are now available does not mean that they are the best course of action. Thinking that changing will get rid of problems is clearly a naive approach

Unfortunately with that woman's child there won't be acknowledgement that this was /is not the right route, instead it will fuel calls for access to free and immediate health care Inc GRS both in the UK and US.

Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.

If that's their bottom line then it seems only right that someone somewhere stops all treatment pathways and asks - what are you dong prior to any treatment and how are you supporting your patents afertwards.

If the answer is nothing much then the obvious conclusion is that that particualr pathway is deply and dangerously flawed!

@Campervan69

Saw this on Facebook this morning. This poor mum and poor child have been lied to and duped IMO by those who should "first do no harm". So sad.

Oh my goodness that poor family

Just tragic