Suicide rate of those who have undergone reassignment

[Wandawomble]

Noticed a comment on the Times article recently posted - “The most thorough follow-up of sex-reassigned people—extending over 30 years and conducted in Sweden, where the culture is strongly supportive of the transgendered—documents their lifelong mental unrest. Ten to 15 years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to 20 times that of comparable peers.”

Can we find more information about this?

"A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. "

And this is due to the ridiculous notion of a transgender umbrella. Transgender is not transsexual- being transsexual is just one small part of the umbrella at approximately 2%.

@BlueLipstickRocks

As someone who has the psychological disorder of transsexualism I can say with absolute certainly that it most certainly is.

What is your credentials to say that it isn't? This is my lived experience for decades.

@Shizuku has evidently just googled and found an article that suits their narrative. Personally I would rather listen to those who have actual lived experience, thank you for sharing @BlueLipstickRocks.

"Personally I would rather listen to those who have actual lived experience, thank you for sharing"

So you don't doubt the the existence of gender identity. That's good.

It's most certainly not a conspiracy theory.

It's well-established that transsexualism was manipulated into a transgender umbrella that sought to encompass transvestitism.

If being transgender does not cause significant distress why is the affirmation approach the only approach you believe to be correct?

If trans people weren't distressed at the mismatch between their sex and their perceived gender then hormone therapy and surgery wouldn't be needed.

@Shizuku

"Personally I would rather listen to those who have actual lived experience, thank you for sharing"

So you don't doubt the the existence of gender identity. That's good.

That...doesn't really follow, does it?

I don't think anyone has ever questioned that gender identity is a very real subjective experience for those who believe in it.

I am an atheist who lives in a devoutly religious country. People's beliefs are hugely important to them, & I'm happy to respect that they hold them, despite not sharing them.

So you don't doubt the the existence of gender identity. That's good.

I think people on here don't doubt the existence of gender dysphoria. That's different.

Hold up, so gender dysphoria isn’t a mental health condition but has been recognised in American courts as a disability? I am confused.
Or is gender dysphoria not a requirement for a ‘trans’ identity hence the ‘umbrella’ Blue referred to?

@BlueLipstickRocks

Political ideologies have manipulated a lot of things - it doesn't make it right.

I will say it again- there is absolutely NOTHING normal about wanting healthy body parts removed.

Eddie Izzard doesn't want anything removed. Still trans.

Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling

Why is there always (irresponsible) talk of suicide then? We're told if we don't give children puberty blockers, they'll likely commit suicide. If we don't use someone's preferred pronouns, they'll likely commit suicide, etc.

Is feeling suicidal not a major sign of deep distress?

Gender dysphoria is a ridiculous diagnosis and well worth looking up the diagnostic criteria. It's so ridiculous everyone could claim to have it.

The point is "being trans" is such a hugely broad concept now, that anyone at anytime can claim themselves to be trans or in fact claim to be a member of the opposite sex, without having undergone any physical changes whatsoever.

We're simply all expected to use new preferred pronouns with no questions asked.

It's not an "opinion", it's what the people who actually define psychological disorders say. If you don't like it, you'll have to take it up with them.

Ultimately, psychologist’s takes on various disorders are opinions, theories. Look at Freudian theory, while some of it still is used, lots has been discredited and understood to be a reflection of the oppression of women typical of his time.

Now I’m happy to be fact checked on this, but wasn’t it the American Psychological Association who supported the torture of inmates at Guantanamo Bay? Extreme example but @Shizuku, you are talking as if a position can’t be critiqued because it’s made by psychologists. And we have someone telling us they have experienced their desire to change sex as a disorder. I agree it is arrogant to invalidate them.

Although I am interested in your quote from the person who feels the Swedish study was misused, haven’t read it all but that is interesting to consider.

@Merename

It's not an "opinion", it's what the people who actually define psychological disorders say. If you don't like it, you'll have to take it up with them.

Ultimately, psychologist’s takes on various disorders are opinions, theories. Look at Freudian theory, while some of it still is used, lots has been discredited and understood to be a reflection of the oppression of women typical of his time.

Now I’m happy to be fact checked on this, but wasn’t it the American Psychological Association who supported the torture of inmates at Guantanamo Bay? Extreme example but @Shizuku, you are talking as if a position can’t be critiqued because it’s made by psychologists. And we have someone telling us they have experienced their desire to change sex as a disorder. I agree it is arrogant to invalidate them.

Although I am interested in your quote from the person who feels the Swedish study was misused, haven’t read it all but that is interesting to consider.

"it is arrogant to invalidate them."

Don't you think it's arrogant to dismiss the findings of the people who actually define psychological disorders? I mean go ahead by all means, but it's quite a claim really isn't it, that all the scientists are wrong?

@yourhairiswinterfire

Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling

Why is there always (irresponsible) talk of suicide then? We're told if we don't give children puberty blockers, they'll likely commit suicide. If we don't use someone's preferred pronouns, they'll likely commit suicide, etc.

Is feeling suicidal not a major sign of deep distress?

Quite!

One minute it's "We need to affirm the identity of trans people and not mis-gender them ever or they'll all run off the nearest cliff" next it's "Gender doesn't cause distress for trans people"

So is gender causing deep distress or not?

Here's your sentence:

"Gender doesn't cause distress for trans people"

Here's what the psychologists actually say:

"Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling"

Contrast and compare. Take your time. Think hard about the word "many".

It is impossible to consider trans as a single entity.

It's an umbrella and each component has its own distinct presentation, characteristics and demands. Often these components are in conflict.