British Cycling Consultation on Transgender Policy

[lorisparkle]

Thought this might be of interest

www.britishcycling.org.uk/about/article/20201009-British-Cycling-publishes-Transgender-and-Non-Binary-Participation-policy-0

[gardenbird48]

well, I've submitted. I like cycling and DD is quite athletic and wants to join various clubs post lockdown. Let's hope they want her and haven't decided to ignore her needs and interests and prioritise another group entirely.

[andyoldlabour]

I am so disgusted by this, beyond words. The conflation of sex and gender. No scientific facts, no mention of fairness, this is even worse than Joanna Harper's 2015 study.
The following is stupid beyond belief.

1.Definitions: Birth Gender: the gender that a person is assumed to be when they are born. This is usually based on the Sex they are assigned at birth.

Gender: the social, and cultural construction of what it means to be a man or a woman, including roles, expectations and behaviour.

Gender Identity: a person’s internal, deeply felt sense of self, for example, a man, a woman, or a Non-Binaryperson. A person’s Gender Identity may or may not correspond with their Sex.

Non-Binary: where an individual does not identify as being part of the binary gender (male or female).

Self-Identified Gender: the gender that the person identifies as, opposed to that which is assigned at birth, their ‘Birth Gender’.

Sex: a person’s biological and physical characteristics, defined usually as either ‘male’ or ‘female’ and including indeterminate Sex.

Transgender: a person whose Gender Identity is different from their physical Sex at birth. Those people who, as defined by the Equality Act 2010, share the protected characteristic of gender reassignment and are described as transsexual people under the legislation.

[andyoldlabour]

I have replied, making the following points:

1. Comments on the definitions.
   "You constantly conflate sex and gender, when sports should only be categorised by birth sex."
   
   
2. Section 3 membership
   "No male should ever be allowed to compete in female sports. In 2019, when Maxine Blythin was nominated Kent Women's cricketer of the year, Maxine averaged more runs than Don Bradman at his best. Maxine (a human male) was an average club cricketer in the men's leagues. Kate Weatherly was an average male mountain biker in New Zealand. Three months after competing in the men's division, Kate won the New Zealand women's championship, then repeated that the next year. Understandably, women's participation in this event declined."
   
   Section 4 recreational activity
   "Everyone can take part in recreational activity, regardless of their sex or gender identity."
   
   Section 5 Competition
   "If you allow human males to compete against human females, then you will put all human females at a disadvantage, thus contradicting your own policy.
   Testosterone levels are a complete "red herring", because they ignore all the physical advantages that going through a male puberty confers on the human body - larger heart and lungs, longer/stronger/denser bones, more lean muscle mass, less body fat, more efficient cardio vascular system, more oxygen carrying red blood cells."
   
   Any other comments
   "The fact that you have only mentioned transgender athletes competing in the female category, means that you are totally aware that very few if any female to male transgender athletes will be competing in the sport, which confirms that male athletes will always have an advantage over female athletes.
   If you continue on this course, then you will be responsible for the destruction of female participation in British Cycling."

[lorisparkle]

It is really useful to see what comments others have made. Thank you.

[CaveMum]

Has anyone flagged this up to ScienceofSport and FondofBeatles on Twitter? I’m sure they’d love to weigh in.

[Mulletsaremisunderstood]

Completed. This is such a farce - how can they do this to women and girls.

[CazSkids]

Not sure how useful my comments will be, as I'm quite new to this kind of stuff and not articulate, but here they are:

Do you have any comments on the Definitions that have been used in the Policy? Sex is not "assigned at birth" it is observed and recorded. "Gender Identity", "Non-Binary" and "Self-Identified Gender" are the same as "Gender" i.e. a nebulous social construct of stereotypes.
Do you have any comments on Section 3 of this Policy (Membership)? The protected characteristics under the Equality Act 2010 include Sex and gender recognition. "no medical evidence" required - so any bloke can say that he's woman and would have to be accepted on his say so? This is appalling from a safeguarding point of view. Predatory men will try anything to have access to the vulnerable, your policy should not be making it easier for them.
Do you have any comments on Section 4 of this Policy (Recreational Activity)? The protected characteristics under the Equality Act 2010 include Sex and gender recognition, not "Self-Identified Gender, without providing additional evidence". Again, so any bloke can say that he's woman and would have to be accepted on his say so? This is appalling from a safeguarding point of view. Predatory men will try anything to have access to the vulnerable, your policy should not be making it easier for them.
Do you have any comments on Section 5 of this Policy (Competition)? The work done by Emma Hilton and Ross Tucker in relation to World Rugby's policy should show you that males who have been through puberty still have an advantage over females no matter what drugs they take, and they should not be allowed in female cycling at any competitive level. If you do this, female cycling will lose its current momentum, as girls will be discouraged. It is bad enough in all sports to keep girls in their teens committed and losing places to trans-identified males will make it infinitely worse.
Do you have any other comments? Section 7 is does not follow the protected characteristics of the Equality Act 2010 especially with regard to claiming there are no restrictions and that the transgender person should be supported in "their choice of changing facilities". They can be restricted in specific circumstances. Also, what about the feelings of women and girls who do not want to ride with men? I thought the Breeze rides were set up to combat low participation rates from women and girls due to this. What about safety and dignity for women and girls in changing facilities? It is obvious from this policy that you have not carried out any impact assessments on women and girls of transgender participation. You have merely followed the instructions of transgender lobby groups, which seek to undermine women's sex-based rights. The whole of this policy is to promote the feelings of men over the rights, safety and feelings of women and girls.

[andyoldlabour]

CazSkids

Excellent work!
If only the sports bodies had people like us advising them.

[Manderleyagain]

Cazskids. The p/c in the equality act is called 'gender reassignment' not gender recognition.

[AlecTrevelyan006]

//www.cyclingweekly.com/fitness/cycling-and-gender-how-and-why-male-and-female-cyclists-need-to-train-differently-344365/amp

[AlecTrevelyan006]

www.liv-cycling.com/global/liv-design-data

[CazSkids]

@Manderleyagain

Cazskids. The p/c in the equality act is called 'gender reassignment' not gender recognition.

Damn, thought I'd checked it, thanks for that.

[gardenbird48]

@lorisparkle

It is really useful to see what comments others have made. Thank you.

I clarified the position relating to people holding the protected characteristic of Gender Reassignment and pointed out that it doesn't mean that people with the pc can access the facilities and services of the opposite sex.

The comparator when considering discrimination against a transwoman (a male with the pc of Gender Reassignment) would be another male without the pc of GR. If they exclude one group of males from a female only group for eg. it is unlawful to include another group of males.

This is one of the most common misconceptions that Stonewall have lied about about the EA 2010. The law is very clear that it is lawful to exclude ALL males from certain spaces and services as long as it is proportionate and a legitimate aim. A likely proportionate aim would be to have a woman only cycling group because it has been found that women are more likely to participate.

I pointed out the issue of exclusion of certain groups of women who are either not willing or able to share groups or facilities with males. The inclusion of a male person in such a group effectively excludes all the women from that group or service.

GDPR is another consideration they need to take seriously. Presumably the 'gender marker' they hold for members is held on a database somewhere. Gender is not on the list of permitted data that an organisation can legally hold so they are likely to be in breach of GDPR and maybe liable for a large fine.

I suggested they ditch their legal advice and get someone who actually can read the EA 2010.

[gardenbird48]

and echo what Cazskids said.

Gender, Birth Gender, Gender Identity are not defined in law and have no consistent, centrally agreed definition (that no one has yet been able to explain adequately, despite many attempts). I mean, their definition of Gender is purely about the sex based stereotypes and implying that any deviation from a very narrow definition of those means you are trans.

The concept of Gender is not externally or independently verifiable (ie. it relies entirely on self-definition) and therefore it would be inappropriate to base a policy on this.

[Quadzilla]

@CaveMum

Has anyone flagged this up to ScienceofSport and FondofBeatles on Twitter? I’m sure they’d love to weigh in.

I tagged them on Twitter last night. Hopefully they’ll have a look

[SSwimCycle21]

Thank you for your answers I did some cut n paste editing and completed the survey. As a parent of two sporty young women my blood boils at erosion of some of their fundamental rights to access sport at all levels. We watched some world tumbling gymnastic coverage a few months ago and it was very obvious a Chinese tumbler was a male in a female medal winning team my teenager DD just couldn’t compute what we were watching.

[Quadzilla]

Thank you all for taking part. ❤️

[andyoldlabour]

If anyone is on twitter (I was mysteriously banned last year) would it be possible to # a few people? I have just had a quick read through Jo Rowsell's twitter feed and she seems a very down to earth person. I think she retired last year. Also the usual suspects, such as Sharron Davies and Dame Kelly Holmes.

[Kit19]

I've pretty much followed everyone else's responses as they're so right but I have put in a comment at the end which I hope might at least make some of the sensible ones feel a bit of shame

"It is deeply disappointing to see yet again that the needs of women and girls are being set aside. You know what a woman is and the physical advantages men have over them - I find it baffling that you tie yourselves in knots pretending that you do not"

[MrGHardy]

Lunatics running things everywhere.

[YessicaHaircut]

Thank you so much for letting us know about this OP. Will be completing and submitting mine over the weekend. Not sure who on earth has made the decision that it’s fair in any way to allow males to compete in female sporting categories. Onward the struggle! 🚴‍♀️

[CuthbertDibbleandGrubb]

I have responded. Thank you for the advice others offered earlier in this thread.

[Quadzilla]

The issues for me fall into two parts:
Competitive cycling - men are physically stronger/bigger etc than women so by allowing males, however they identify into women’s/girls races, it’s unfair and the women/girls miss out.
Recreational cycling - the current policy allows people to self identify there gender which most of the time doesn’t make a difference to mixed sex recreational cycling. This is one area where BC should be focusing on, making sure trans people are treated decently and welcomed. However British Cycling runs women’s only rides to encourage more women to cycle. The current policy allows anyone to identify into these rides which causes multiple issues.

1. They don’t tell anyone these rides are actually mixed sex so women sign up presuming them to be female only
   
2. Some women do not want to ride with males for a variety of reasons. These women will not attend and are therefore excluded from women’s rides
   
3. Female volunteers who run these rides often arrive for a ride not knowing who will turn up. They do so on the basis the attendees are female. Not knowing whether or not your attendees are actually female can cause reluctance to volunteer.

[Ihaventgottimeforthis]

British Cycling consultation?

Completed it mate.

I'm appalled by this policy. I'm a volunteer who leads junior & women-only cycling sessions at my local facility, where we have sex segregated changing facilities.

[Gurufloof]

@Kit19

I've pretty much followed everyone else's responses as they're so right but I have put in a comment at the end which I hope might at least make some of the sensible ones feel a bit of shame

"It is deeply disappointing to see yet again that the needs of women and girls are being set aside. You know what a woman is and the physical advantages men have over them - I find it baffling that you tie yourselves in knots pretending that you do not"

I like this answer, I will use it when I fill out this later,,also bookmarking so I can find this later.