British Cycling Consultation on Transgender Policy

[lorisparkle]

Thought this might be of interest

www.britishcycling.org.uk/about/article/20201009-British-Cycling-publishes-Transgender-and-Non-Binary-Participation-policy-0

[Standrewsschool]

Some good responses above.

[BettyFilous]

GDPR is another consideration they need to take seriously. Presumably the 'gender marker' they hold for members is held on a database somewhere. Gender is not on the list of permitted data that an organisation can legally hold so they are likely to be in breach of GDPR and maybe liable for a large fine.

Do you have a link for the permitted data categories? I can feel another email to my HR department coming on.

[NutellaEllaElla]

Completed. That document was embarrassingly poorly written.

[ChakaDakotaRegina]

Placemarking for later.

14 year old girls will have 30 odd years of periods, will have a limited fertility window, will have to moderate their training to protect their fertility (we know some of them see periods as a sign they’re not training hard enough) will have to go through the menopause (with the effects on the whole body) will have to deal with the physical disadvantages of being female (less muscle, more fat, smaller hands, less lung capacity, statistically shorter and lighter etc) - we cannot ignore the physical differences between males and females.

We have 100 years of sporting competition results that show males consistently and comprehensively outperform females in almost all sports.

We have a national obesity crisis and low overall participation in regular exercise.

Females are statistically more likely to have depression and anxiety disorders than males. We have to consider the feelings of females in this.

[GNCQ]

Your average sporty teenage boy can break a women's world record in almost all athletes categories.
boysvswomen.com/#/

Ok cycling isn't athletics and so isn't included in the link I provided, but it's pretty obvious non professional teenaged boys could beat a professional adult female in cycling.

I'll look into completing the form thanks for sharing

[Quadzilla]

Does anyone know if any other British sporting federation or governing body has done a consultation on their transgender policy?

[Biscuitsanddoombar]

Sport England hired gendered intelligence to do a big piece of work on this which was meant to have concluded last autumn

They are currently sat firmly on the fence by saying as far as I can see that their view is not to have a view which is frankly pathetic

www.sportengland.org/corporate-information/equality-and-diversity/transgender-inclusion-grassroots-sport-and-physical

[Feelinghothothottoday]

They promote female only rides in order to encourage women and girls to cycle. This will now be open to anyone.

[Tamingofthehamster]

It’s very disheartening when you see the comments on Twitter - all very anti FPFW. Not sure that many BC members will actually get to head about the consultation, let alone know what the current policy is and therefore know how important it is to fill it in.

[gardenbird48]

@BettyFilous

GDPR is another consideration they need to take seriously. Presumably the 'gender marker' they hold for members is held on a database somewhere. Gender is not on the list of permitted data that an organisation can legally hold so they are likely to be in breach of GDPR and maybe liable for a large fine.

Do you have a link for the permitted data categories? I can feel another email to my HR department coming on.

The Data Protection Act governs our rules re. GDPR. I did find a slightly more general page but the below info specifies what information an employer can hold about an employee (which because of that relationship is presumably more or the same as data that can be held by a club about a member).

This is a good starting point for the full info (sorry I haven't got time to find more atm) but it seems to be quite clear that gender and gender identity are not on any list of data that an organisation are permitted to hold about an individual. I also found an article about the fines/consequences of breaching GDPR rules - apparently the fines can be significant.

www.gov.uk/personal-data-my-employer-can-keep-about-me
www.gov.uk/data-protection
Employers can keep the following data about their employees without their permission:

name
address
date of birth
sex
education and qualifications
work experience
National Insurance number
tax code
emergency contact details
employment history with the organisation
employment terms and conditions (eg pay, hours of work, holidays, benefits, absence)
any accidents connected with work
any training taken
any disciplinary action

There is stronger legal protection for more sensitive information, such as:

race
ethnic background
political opinions
religious beliefs
trade union membership
genetics
biometrics (where used for identification)
health
sex life or orientation
There are separate safeguards for personal data relating to criminal convictions and offences.

[2Rebecca]

I'm a NC member and have led women only rides. There is a bloke who comes along with his teenage daughter. This pissed me off but I didn't want to exclude the girl so I know longer call them women's rides I just have a distance and pace. If women's rides are going to include males then I don't see the point in pretending in the title. I am totally opposed to people with a Y chromosome participating in female racing at any level

[2Rebecca]

BC not NC

[Taswama]

Did you suggest to the dad that he went and did his own thing and then meet you back at the start? Totally understand if you didn't, just wondering.

[BigHuff]

Have completed it now too. I wrote some very lengthy, impassion answers - hopefully it'll do a bit of good.

I am a long-distance cyclist (think 3000 miles in 30 days type of thing) and adore all things bike. Being able to go and stop under your own power/to get lost and cope with getting lost/fix mechanical issues are all huge confidence and capacity builders for young women. There's a reason women's rights and cycling go way back.

[andyoldlabour]

Quadzilla

I have looked up the England Rugby guidelines and they are as mixed up as the cycling ones. They have also been advised by Stonewall, Mermaids, GIDS, GIRES and Gendered Intellingence.

www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/26/26de38f3-d82f-4816-8be3-b582f6a9f757/TransgenderPolicy.pdf

The same for UK Athletics.

genderarchive.org.uk/assets/pdfs/United%20Kingdom%20Athletics%20-%20Transgender%20Policy%20Guidance%20for%20Athletics%20Clubs%20and%20Competition%20Providers.pdf

UK Football.

file:///C:/Users/andy/AppData/Local/Temp/10360_fa-policy-on-trans-people-in-football.pdf

[Quadzilla]

Yep, I thought as much Andy

If BC are the first organisation to do this (and we hope they are doing it with open minds and hearts) then they should be supported and appalled as trailblazers.
If, and I appreciate it’s a big if, they listen to the voices advocating for women and girls then it puts much more pressure on Sport England and the other governing bodies.

Or if I look at it cynically, it’s just paving the way for Emily Bridges in the women’s team in Tokyo.

[megabass]

I started another BC thread but perhaps I should have put the information here. But anyway,

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4204833-British-Cycling-2021-Handbook?msgid=105992606#105992606

[Quadzilla]

If doesn’t surprise me Megabass
When I did my coaching course with BC they could even get the Equality Act protected characteristics right in the coursework book.

[Quadzilla]

app.vacancy-filler.co.uk/salescrm/Careers/CareersPage.aspx?e=LMo8nnTwYNZtCHoGB6lucngFA3_k2lHC_g01zgLTzSE2aCyO3HEIohOBhKidZ28VjNs2ido8Uok&iframe=True&HideCareersLink=False&fbclid=IwAR2mLrOVd7eFgJVAW9olLJTh36Pg-E_3ob1mGnztgB_oMfRntZo1SwBY1ys

This is the job description for a post on their shiny new Diversity and Inclusion panel. Soooo many errors including calling the Equality Act, the Inclusion Act.

[Leafstamp]

@andyoldlabour

Quadzilla

I have looked up the England Rugby guidelines and they are as mixed up as the cycling ones. They have also been advised by Stonewall, Mermaids, GIDS, GIRES and Gendered Intellingence.

www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/26/26de38f3-d82f-4816-8be3-b582f6a9f757/TransgenderPolicy.pdf

The same for UK Athletics.

genderarchive.org.uk/assets/pdfs/United%20Kingdom%20Athletics%20-%20Transgender%20Policy%20Guidance%20for%20Athletics%20Clubs%20and%20Competition%20Providers.pdf

UK Football.

file:///C:/Users/andy/AppData/Local/Temp/10360_fa-policy-on-trans-people-in-football.pdf

Just in case this of interest, see here (and the original thread linked within it):

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4188331-Time-to-see-if-the-RFU-are-any-further-forward

[megabass]

This is their idea of safeguarding children:

P224
"SAFEGUARDING CHILDREN AND YOUNG PEOPLE: POLICY AND PROCEDURES
KEY PRINCIPLES
All children, regardless of their Age, Race, Religion or Belief, Disability, Gender Identity or Sexual Orientation, have the right to protection from abuse."

There is something missing!!!

[Leafstamp]

@megabass

This is their idea of safeguarding children:

P224
"SAFEGUARDING CHILDREN AND YOUNG PEOPLE: POLICY AND PROCEDURES
KEY PRINCIPLES
All children, regardless of their Age, Race, Religion or Belief, Disability, Gender Identity or Sexual Orientation, have the right to protection from abuse."

There is something missing!!!

FFS. It’s so infuriating that organisations are getting thi so wrong.

[Legba]

Can someone please remind me what the normal testosterone level for a women is? I think it's considerably lower than what BC are saying is acceptable for a TW competitor.

[GonadTheGaul]

@Legba

Can someone please remind me what the normal testosterone level for a women is? I think it's considerably lower than what BC are saying is acceptable for a TW competitor.

The ranges vary slightly from lab to lab but it's typically around 8-30nmol/L for males and 0.2-1.8nmol/L for females.

Testosterone levels are a bit of a red herring as even if a male person reduces their testosterone to well below the limit for competition, it hardly reduces their performance anyway, as the research shows.

[NutellaEllaElla]

And i'd add that if they have been through male puberty, their body has grown awash with huge amounts of testosterone which permanently advantages them in many ways.