Why give child man' s surname

[DeedledeDee]

Just that. Woman I know not married, strong feminist, determined to keep her own name, then gives children his surname.
Why not give her own surname ? In some cultures they do ,they follow the maternal line.
Also, I know it would be less complicated if there are several children to different father's.
Men come and go, but children usually stay with the mum. Would be sensible then if they all have her family name.
What do you think?

It's a patriarchal society and women when they marry become the man's property

FFS, what a load of claptrap. I don't know any women who have become 'the man's property' on marriage. Get over yourself.

People are entitled to use whatever surname they want, for themselves and for their children, without strident feminists telling them what they should or shouldn't do. Neither do they have to justify their reasons for their choices.

I just don't get why this one bugs you so much. Majority of women follow current cultural norm in naming children is not a suprise

It’s not a surprise to me at all. I’d just like some honesty, really, instead of reading the same old excuses.

There’s nothing wrong with following a cultural tradition, to be clear.

People are entitled to use whatever surname they want, for themselves and for their children, without strident feminists telling them what they should or shouldn't do. Neither do they have to justify their reasons for their choices.

No, but people are perfectly entitled to have the discussion around surnames, and have an opinion.

Myself and my sister have my mum's surname. My children also have this surname, as do my sisters children. I like the idea of it passing down the maternal line. The last patriarchal link to the name is my grandfather. I'm hoping that my daughters will continue the maternal line with their children.

Why would I want her name? I've already been lumbered with the name of her husband, rather than her lover because it made it easier to pretend that such a pillar of the community hadn't been fucking somebody else for five years before becoming a widow.

And more to the point, why would my children want it? I know who their fathers are.

@SwearyMaclary

It’s funny how many women say that they gave their child the father’s surname because they hate their own, but you almost never hear of the reverse happening.

My cousin did exactly this. His surname was awful so they both took her name.

@eaglejulesk

It's a patriarchal society and women when they marry become the man's property

FFS, what a load of claptrap. I don't know any women who have become 'the man's property' on marriage. Get over yourself.

People are entitled to use whatever surname they want, for themselves and for their children, without strident feminists telling them what they should or shouldn't do. Neither do they have to justify their reasons for their choices.

So why do we have this "cultural norm", pray? How has it turned out that women are a) given away at marriage from father to husband b) expected to take husband's name?

If you don't like the "strident feminist" explanation, what's your explanation?

I agree OP. It doesn't make sense to me that some women are very proud of not taking their husband's surname after marriage (to the extent that they will openly look down on women who do), yet give their child their husband's surname. To me it's exactly the same thing 🤷‍♀️

So then your children wouldn't be getting your husband's name either.

And you wouldn't be getting your husband's name, just a random name from one of his ancestors.

That’s really not the point though - the point I’m making is that women talk about “keeping their name” as if it’s not just the name of another man given to them essentially automatically at birth. Our own surnames are a product of the patriarchal naming system, so even without the abuse I would have felt no urge to pass my name on and give my kids their grandfather’s name rather than their father’s name.

When I changed my name at 18 I actually spend some time flipping through the phone book considering other names, but since somehow all my exam certificates were in the name I used at school which was my stepdad’s name (I still don’t know how my mum managed that - is that standard?!) I just went with the easy option.

Had I picked a name at that point that had any importance to me I would have kept it when I got married.

My cousin did exactly this. His surname was awful so they both took her name.

Refreshing!

Hyphenated mothers and fathers
Association to surname-
Mine is always Misspelt and mispronounced
Sounds and rolls off better with fathers
Mother choosing first names so father chooses surname
Unimportant to mother which name is taken
Nothing to do with a man thinking he is our "property" rather working together to included what's the father values as important to him and less important to me
Parenting is compromising being inclusive, not looking at it as property or ownership of us.

My DDs both have DH’s name and I do too. DD1 was born before we were married and I knew I would want us all to have the same name. DH and I knew we were going to get married but we were saving up for it. DD1 was an unexpected addition early on in our relationship but we had talked about marriage. DH proposed a year later. I felt no real emotional attachment to my last name. DH wouldn’t have minded if I kept my name and I wouldn’t have pushed him to take mine. If I felt strongly about my name, of course I’d have kept it.

I know two people who are pregnant or have just had babies who gave them their partner’s name. They’re not married. Both have been desperate for their partner to propose and get married and they have been together for long enough that it would have happened by now. One’s partner told her she could change her name to his by deed poll if she wanted to. Both men are screaming that they don’t want to marry them but they both gave/will give their children his name. That I don’t understand!

For me it would depend on why they aren't married.

If it's a mutual decision then the kids should get double-barrelled surnames, at least for airport issues etc, they can go by just one in public and at school.

If it's only your friend who's against marriage and her partner would be up for it, I'd probably give DC his last name or again double-barrel.

It would be unfair to refuse to marry him and also not let him have the same last name as his DC (though of course many men do that to their partners).

@EdgeOfACoin

My cousin did exactly this. His surname was awful so they both took her name.

Refreshing!

Isn’t it! My other cousin (his sister) changed her name by deed poll before getting married. They had a double barrelled name to combine their mum and dad’s surnames so she just kept her mum’s bit. An example of when the mum’s name should have been used from the start!

I also know a couple who joined their surnames to make a completely new one. That worked quite well. She is a Dr as well so they were announced as Mr and Dr X. Loved that.

That’s really not the point though - the point I’m making is that women talk about “keeping their name” as if it’s not just the name of another man given to them essentially automatically at birth. Our own surnames are a product of the patriarchal naming system

But the point I'm making that my name is my name, just as much as my husband's name is his name. There is an attitude that a woman 'gets' her name from her father anyway, so why doesn't she just take her husband's name? But by that logic her husband no more has his own name than she does - it came from his father. So she's not taking her husband's name, she's taking her husband's father's name etc. It just seems to me to be an odd argument.

Also, I mention this on every name thread so apologies for the repetition, but a number of surnames ending in 'ster actually come from a female lineage. Eg:

Brewster - female brewer
Baxter - female baker
Webster - female weaver (webber being the male surname)

You also see it preserved in the word 'spinster'.

So it's not true that all surnames have always been handed down through the male line.

@wusbanker

For me it would depend on why they aren't married.

If it's a mutual decision then the kids should get double-barrelled surnames, at least for airport issues etc, they can go by just one in public and at school.

If it's only your friend who's against marriage and her partner would be up for it, I'd probably give DC his last name or again double-barrel.

It would be unfair to refuse to marry him and also not let him have the same last name as his DC (though of course many men do that to their partners).

Is this in response to my comment above yours?

Both women I know want to get married. It’s the men who are showing with their actions that they don’t want to get married. Both women could propose of course but they won’t.

@BeingATwatItsABingThing

My DDs both have DH’s name and I do too. DD1 was born before we were married and I knew I would want us all to have the same name. DH and I knew we were going to get married but we were saving up for it. DD1 was an unexpected addition early on in our relationship but we had talked about marriage. DH proposed a year later. I felt no real emotional attachment to my last name. DH wouldn’t have minded if I kept my name and I wouldn’t have pushed him to take mine. If I felt strongly about my name, of course I’d have kept it.

I know two people who are pregnant or have just had babies who gave them their partner’s name. They’re not married. Both have been desperate for their partner to propose and get married and they have been together for long enough that it would have happened by now. One’s partner told her she could change her name to his by deed poll if she wanted to. Both men are screaming that they don’t want to marry them but they both gave/will give their children his name. That I don’t understand!

That’s the issue isn’t it! Men are happy to have children without marriage and it speaks volumes!

I wish my mum had given me her surname as my dad's surname (the one I had) was so ugly teachers used to make fun of it in primary school

I have DH's surname but gave my DM maiden name as a middle name of theirs. Would have double barrelled had I had my mum's lovely name

I feel very strongly about this too. I don't care what others do I want to keep my own surname when I married. When the kids were born I was going to have one with DJ's surname and one with mine.

My the first kid was born he has my surname as his middle name, a common Scottish custom and his dad's surname. His dad's surname is such that you can guess the ethnicity of a person.

When my second kid was born, and it was going to be with my surname, dh was happy about that. But when it came to it, didn't feel it would be fair on the kid going to school with a different surname to their sibling. Yeah yeah I know loads of blended families to that, but as I said earlier don't care what other people do.

After a lot of deep thought decided to go with DH's surname and mine as a middle name. For the kid's sake.

Ironically and very sadly, both the kids hate their "ethnic" surname, and wish they had my plain boring British surname. :(

Whilst i probably would have kept my birth name if i had been older and less social pressure..i should point out my husbands name is my name. It was given to me on marriage and i accepted it. Much like the dinner service. It isnt aunty vi and aunty jan's dinner service. Its ours.
I am in total agreement about patriachal norms but my name was mine on birth and still mine when i changed it on marriage.

That’s the issue isn’t it! Men are happy to have children without marriage and it speaks volumes!

It really does. They know that having a baby doesn’t need to impact their life at all if they don’t want it to. They can continue to work as before, their bodies are exactly the same and (as was proven by a previous thread on the subject) they don’t even need to pay for them and CMS will do nothing about it.

I've never understood why unmarried women give their children their DP's surname or why they deny that it's a cultural norm.

I kept my name. DH suggested that any boys have his surname and girls have mine. I agreed that was a good idea but we didn't do it because I couldn't face the hassle (DH was more than willing to do so). Culturally, it's not considered normal and I already was constantly facing people giving me a hard time for not taking DH's name that I decided it wasn't a fight I was willing to subject myself to while I dealt with the eye rolling and passive aggressive behaviour I'd have faced (and yes, it would have been mostly me facing it, not DH).So I chose convenience over feminism. I admit.

I didn't fight for them to have my name because to be honest, I just didn't care as much as DH did. Which again, is a cultural norm. As an adult woman and a strong feminist, I totally see that giving the children the man's name is ridiculous but neither DH nor I had grown up in a society in which it was expected that the children would have my name. It was always just normal for children to have the man's name. So it just wasn't something I cared about as much emotionally, even though intellectually it made sense.

My kids have my surname.
I'm not married though.
The way I looked at it was we're not married,much easier for kids to have my surname in case of break up.
30 years and still no sign of that happening.
Dp did say he'd change his to mine,it'll be easier changing his name than all ours.

@yellowbluefish

I agree OP. It doesn't make sense to me that some women are very proud of not taking their husband's surname after marriage (to the extent that they will openly look down on women who do), yet give their child their husband's surname. To me it's exactly the same thing 🤷‍♀️

Try having a conversation about giving your children the mother’s last name instead of the father’s and you’ll know why this happens. It goes nowhere.

I actually proposed and really fought for this (daughters given my last name and sons given his) and my DH wouldn’t hear of it. He didn’t even care that I never bothered to change my name either.

I had slightly different reasoning and thought long and hard about this. When I got married, I didn't change my name. When we had our two DSs I gave them my surname as a middle name, and DHs as surname.

My thinking was that I had the link to my children as I gave birth to them. My husband didn't have that, so I let them have his surname to give them that tie.

I don't know if that's a good enough reason, but it seemed to make sense at the time.