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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why give child man' s surname

191 replies

DeedledeDee · 23/03/2021 17:06

Just that. Woman I know not married, strong feminist, determined to keep her own name, then gives children his surname.
Why not give her own surname ? In some cultures they do ,they follow the maternal line.
Also, I know it would be less complicated if there are several children to different father's.
Men come and go, but children usually stay with the mum. Would be sensible then if they all have her family name.
What do you think?

OP posts:
SavedDownTheWell · 23/03/2021 21:14

I'm married and didn't change my name. Um-d and Ah-d about that initially purely because I wasn't sure whether or would be important to me to have the same name as my children, or how that might play out.

However, because my husband is not a caveman, he shrugged at that and said "well they can be 'SavedDownTheWells' if you like". Reader, I married him.

I did give our son his surname in the end for various reasons including that my surname comes from a grandfather I never met who was a real piece of work, I like my husband's surname, we are married and had been together for well over a decade when first born arrived, and there just something about my child having lived in and come out of me that makes him mine in a visceral, undeniable sense that isn't the same for my husband, and I thought this was a nice way of creating a sense of belonging for him from the get-go too. The latter part sounds a bit crazy and was certainly not something expressed by my husband, but there we are.

If my husband had attempted to be a neanderthal about his name, however, I expect our son would be sporting my surname now!

supersonicginandtonic · 23/03/2021 21:34

@May17th I just take their birth certificates with me. Never been an issue at all.

MissSeventies · 23/03/2021 21:43

I have followed this thread and found it very interesting. I kept my name on marriage for the reason that I think women should be able to take ownership of their own surname if they choose. I saw some comments up the thread to the effect that "my name was just my Dad's anyway" which I find quite sad. Yes, mine came from my Dad but once I had it it was mine as far as I was concerned. I wasn't just 'borrowing' it from a man. No one ever discards a man's surname with "its just his Dad's", he has ownership of it as evidenced by the divorced men mentioned bemoaning her still having "his name".

Calmingvibrations · 23/03/2021 21:54

I grew up with a different name to my mum as she remarried when I was young and changed her name. So it doesn’t feel odd to have a different name to my own child.

I’m the only person left in my family with my surname, so I don’t have the sense of belonging to a clan, so to speak, that I wanted my child to be part of.

Father’s name is objectively much nicer than mine.

I felt so close to my child from before birth, I thought it would be nice for father and child to share the same name.

Also my other half wasn’t bothered either way. If he had insisted on child having his name, I would have insisted not. I get thats petty. But I wouldn’t have liked the presumptuous of him assuming child has fathers name.

I won’t be changing my name when I’m married.

Thewinterofdiscontent · 23/03/2021 21:55

My son’s dad wasn’t around so he always had mine. I couldn’t be bothered with the faff of changing my name when I married and the other upside is that my son and I still share a surname.
It does feel more feminist and I quite like feeling like I didn’t give “me” or my family up just because I married.

cyclingtowardsbethlehem · 23/03/2021 22:34

Mine have my surname. DP never raised it as an issue because he's comfortable not upholding the patriarchy. Other options friends have done which work well- hyphenating; creating a completely new family name by merging the 2 surnames or one kid having one parents' surname and vice versa (contrary to the recieved wisdom schools do not find this the slightest bit confusing). So lots of options.

But I think @okbussitout is right- it's done without thinking, people feel a bit embarrassed about it later and make up a bunch of reasons. Ultimately the convention is about male ownership, and that's altogether not a good thing.

Cooroo · 24/03/2021 00:09

I was married but kept my own name. When my DD was born 24 years ago I decided she could have my husband's name mainly because my mum already had 7 grandchildren and his had none.
Now divorced and his mum had practically nothing to do with my DD (and since died). I wish she had my name but she likes the one she has so I'm stuck wishing I hadn't been generous about it in the first place.

Doona · 24/03/2021 00:13

It's an easy thing to compromise on. They get YOUR name but we live near MY family. Or have my religion. Or whatever matters. Also, because you're pregnant the baby has an obvious link to you, so it's nice to give the father something to keep. If you like him.

KingdomScrolls · 24/03/2021 00:14

I'm married, DH and I both double barreled, DS came along after so now we all have the same name which is equally mine and DH's. I didn't see why I should either give up the name I'd had my whole life or keep it and have a different surname to my children, DH felt the same. Works for us.

ClearMountain · 24/03/2021 00:16

I gave DC my surname as a middle name. I figured DH’s surname would be their boring legal name and mine would be their stage name, or at least the name they’d use to maintain privacy on social media. Literally nobody except work colleagues knows me as Clear Mountain - they all know me as Clear Middlename because that’s who I am on Facebook etc.

KingdomScrolls · 24/03/2021 00:22

@DeedledeDee it's not true that a man needs a deed poll, we both changed our names (double barrelled) and both only needed our marriage certificate to change everything including passports and driving licences. The only time either party would need a deed poll would be if it were something completely different, eg Ms Smith and Mr Jones married and became Mrs and Mr Brown, both would then require a deed poll.

MissBarbary · 24/03/2021 00:58

Not only is it easier for the wife to change her name than for the husband as a PP said, admin at schools, airports and loads of other places is just easier when parents and child share a name

They would question the kids surnames in an airport as they are different to yours. Things like this make the penny drop for me

Possibly in the haze of having just given birth I failed to follow my own mother's example and use my surname. I travelled a lot on my own with my son and never once was even asked about the surnames being different.

I'm a bit sceptical about the "so nice for the whole family to have the same name" line. What happens on divorce/ widowhood and remarriage? Do women who believe this change the surnames of children from their first marriage?

MissBarbary · 24/03/2021 01:01

[quote KingdomScrolls]@DeedledeDee it's not true that a man needs a deed poll, we both changed our names (double barrelled) and both only needed our marriage certificate to change everything including passports and driving licences. The only time either party would need a deed poll would be if it were something completely different, eg Ms Smith and Mr Jones married and became Mrs and Mr Brown, both would then require a deed poll.[/quote]
Thanks for confirming that. There's no legal reason why a man can't just send his marriage certificate to passport office etc, same as a woman.

Helen8220 · 24/03/2021 01:18

I think loads of women just do it as its the norm then make up loads of reasons to justify it because they're embarrassed.

It's funny how people on the feminism boards endlessly talk about how pronouns matter. That the slightest change in language has significant meaning to how women are viewed in the world. Yet seem to have a blind spot when it comes to upholding the patriarchy with the naming choices they make.

100% agree

Mygardenisnotperfect · 24/03/2021 01:43

I took my (now ex!!) husband’s name when we got married, I was relatively young at the time and although I considered myself a feminist, I am also from quite a traditional family background, and had always grown up expecting to change my name when I got married. My ex did ask me if I wanted to keep my own name and I said no because I wanted our children to have the same surname as both of us (I also slightly preferred his surname). Then when we had a baby he wondered about double barrelling the surname (quite progressive thinking for someone who winded up being a perpetrator of domestic abuse in the marriage, come to think of it), but I thought it sounded ridiculous, like some insurance company or estate agent, they just didn’t work well together.

@overrunwithlego I can tell you that it drives him to distraction that I still have “his” name and haven’t changed it back (I struggled with that for ages but ultimately because our child has his surname and both psychologically and for convenience eg at the airport, I decided to stick with it, if I hadn’t had a child I would definitely have changed back to my maiden name). You find it depressing, I find it a fun way of getting revenge as the bitter ex-wife 😂 Genuinely nothing gives me more pleasure than when we are in court and he refers to me as Mrs X and my barrister corrects him to say, ah you mean Mrs Y and the look on his face!

I have occasionally toyed with the idea of making up a totally new surname for myself now I am divorced to emphasise a new stage in my life once my child is 18! And at times I have absolutely regretted changing my name in the first place and not double-barrelling my child’s name, but mostly it’s when admin gets confusing because I can’t remember which name I’ve used for something.

I actually really like the idea of the matriarchal line of names passing down from the mother, it makes a lot of sense! Although I also have some sympathy with the viewpoint of we know we are the mothers and have grown the child inside ofnis, we can throw the fathers the bone of passing on their surname for reassurance and bonding. I find it a little bit sad that (although it totally happened to me!) some people are already thinking about what happens in the event of divorce when getting married or naming their children.

I’m interested to know for all these people who didn’t change their name on marriage, did you walk alone down the aisle like Meghan Markle? Or did you have someone “give you away”? I had my dad walk me down the aisle and give me away, and even though we had rehearsed it, I remember it seemed really jarring and old fashioned to me on the day when the minister asked “which man gives this woman away?”.

Doona · 24/03/2021 01:50

I’m interested to know for all these people who didn’t change their name on marriage, did you walk alone down the aisle like Meghan Markle?

Yes, on my own. It hadn't even occurred to me, actually, when I turned up at the wedding, there were all these people and an aisle to walk down. Not really surprising, when you think of it. But I had a wtf moment, all captured on camera, then barged forward on my own. Probably Meghan did it better.

Ineedcoffee2021 · 24/03/2021 01:51

What about carrying on women's family name?
What about women who lose their family link?

These are the reasons dd has dp surname, my father was an abusive twat and no way did he deserve to have the name carried on, it dies with me and my brother (doubtful he ever have kids)
I had no link since i was estranged at 15

DPotter · 24/03/2021 01:59

SwearyMaclary

We're not married and DD has my name. My DP raised the issue first during my pregnancy, said he wanted the child to have my name, as he hates his (people can't pronounce it and it takes 2-3 goes of spelling it out) . Mine has only 4 letters, bog standard english word and it still get misspelt! He didn't even want his as a middle name. His family were not impressed. DD still gets cards addressed with his surname!

DD now reckons she could carry it off, and she probably could.

Tallybeebloom · 24/03/2021 04:51

I'm not married but expecting my first child. (I was previously married and kept my name then too). The baby will have both our surnames however I did consider whether or not to give them DP's surname purely based on him already having 2 children with a previous partner and a they have his surname and I have thought it might be nice for them to have the same surname. However I've decided that if they have both our surnames they still will share a surname anyway, my baby will just also have mine. I can't imagine not sharing ny name with my girl or not giving my child my own name. It's such a big part of my identity and I want us to share that.

23PissOffAvenueWF · 24/03/2021 04:59

Yeah, yeah, all these women with dull / boring / horrible / plain surnames that they just can’t wait to be rid of. While their DH / DP has a fabulous / exotic / interesting / no-baggage-at-all surname.

Right. Wink

ArtemisiaGentle · 24/03/2021 05:02

I took my husband's name because it's far shorter and easier to say than my unmarried name.

Now I am "considering our future", I might change my name to my grandmother's unmarried name, or my mum's unmarried name.

IHaveBrilloHair · 24/03/2021 05:17

Dd has my surname, I wouldn't consider giving her his.
We were engaged but not married.
Thank fuck I did as he walked out when she was 6 weeks old after 3 years together.
I really didn't see it coming.

Dd is 19 and has been with her Bf for 4 years, no children planned yet but obviously she knows what happened to me but what I've said to her is that giving the man's name is an outdated tradition, which it is.
Whilst I wouldn't say it, I'd be terribly disappointed if she used his last name.

Blueberries0112 · 24/03/2021 05:23

Surname or no surname, a child’s y-dna is going to be passed down male to male and there are a lot of men who resents not knowing who their father or grandfather line. Same with mtdna and especially women because their father’s y-dna is completely wiped away

I watched people (way too many people) spend countless hours on genealogy trying to find their direct line. They spend $$$$ , traveled and who know what else they do trying to find their line.

I found the current set up works as the mother maiden name very clear

UsedUpUsername · 24/03/2021 05:35

@DeedledeDee

It's a very good point re divorce or being left with children from absent fathers that the children all have mother's name.

Since most of the time she will remain their carer whether divorced, single , or whatever.

The scenario at the airport is a case in point. Since children no longer are on the mother's passport and all have their own passports,it makes security issues much less complicated to all have sane name as the mother. There have been cases when a father has tried to abduct children to country abroad if he is foreign. It would be more difficult for him to take the children out if the country if his name wasn't theirs.

Really not a great argument since women do the majority of family abductions ...

I passed my name along with my DH for family history reasons. Although I doubt my name will survive into the third generation, it tends to get dropped by then 😩

Trustisamust · 24/03/2021 05:37

I would say I'm a feminist and my fiancé respects me for this. Our new daughter is db'd with both of our last names (his family name - my family name).
When/if we marry he will take my family name and add to his, I will take his family name and add to mine. So we will all have the same.
And I am absolutely remaining Miss as I am now.
And my dad is definitely not walking me down the aisle!!!