For Women Scotland lose case

[PandorasMailbox]

Absolutely gutted for them

twitter.com/ForwomenScot/status/1374330580473630721

Have slung some bulbs in the flowerbed. Hoping some lovely tulips bloom.

@MNHQ why was my post asking if trans women would be treated the same as biological women with regards to being dismissed when it comes to medical care deleted?

@Callixte

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

@MNHQ, can you tell me why my post was deleted? I don't have any communication from you through my account or through the linked email to explain it, and from my POV it did not violate either the site TOS or the special rules for women, as I understand them. Thanks.

Callixte and CatsHair, I think you'll need to either tag an admin/moderator individually or post in Site Stuff - I don't think the MNHQ tag does anything. I could be wrong!

@Callixte they’ll not get back to you. I’m frequently deleted on trans discussions with no communication on it, though I’m beginning to wonder if that’s MNHQ’s way of not directly objecting to my comment but still having to be seen as supportive of those that report comments for fear of receiving the kind of hate and bile that so many others have received for not complying with certain demands.

Or perhaps we both need to articulate our views in such a way that circumnavigates certain individuals notice in order to make our point. But I’m absolutely shite at being articulate.

@ArabellaScott I’ve tried that before and still been ignored! But I’m neither being banned nor muted so I suppose I really can’t complain. I’ll just need to find better sounding words and rephrase

If TWAW in Scotland, does this mean they will struggle as much as biological women in Scotland to access health care and be taken seriously by medical professionals? If TWAW in Scotland, do they need to undergo top and bottom surgery before they are women, or is it now a come as you are, if you tell us you’re a woman we’ll believe you even if you’re presenting as male (both in appearance, with lack of hormone and surgical treatment etc etc).

I.E can my biologically male partner, who presents as a biological male, now gain access to a woman’s refuge simply by saying he’s female?

You can report your comment and ask them, too, I think? I've emailed before and always had polite responses.

As for your qu's -

Surgery hasn't been a requirement, I don't think, ever. The criteria is having a GRC.

The situation you're describing is 'self ID'. This is what the GRA reform debates in both England and Scotland were discussing. (Are probably still discussing).

The Scottish govt kicked it into the long grass til post election, recognising presumably that it wasn't exactly a vote winner.

The trouble is that many situations already have effective self ID. There is a transwoman running a Rape Crisis centre in Scotland, for example. I don't know the exact situation with refuges, I suspect it varies, but I do know that Monkland's Women's Aid just recently lost their council funding in favour of a company that would provide a 'gender neutral' service.

@ArabellaScott

Callixte and CatsHair, I think you'll need to either tag an admin/moderator individually or post in Site Stuff - I don't think the MNHQ tag does anything. I could be wrong!

Thank you ArabellaScott; I flagged my own post right after I posted it, asking for @MNHQ to reply and explain why my previous post was deleted. Nothing yet.

When you say I should "tag a moderator" - is there a specific person I can tag who may be responsible for this board and who might react in a timely fashion?

Callixte
I've found that the best way to find out why a post was deleted is to report the deleted post and ask. I've always had a reply when I've done this, and usually fairly quickly (within an hour or two). The response can be a bit slower at night or at the weekend.

@NonnyMouse1337

They currently still need about 49k so please support them if you can.

About 29k needed now! Excellent digging! Let's keep the gardening going.

Sorry, that's about the extent of my knowledge on moderators - I presume it depends who is on duty at the time ...

Wow, 20k raised so fast. Off to dig.

I am gutted about this case, but am so excited to have seen this in my neighbourhood today.

Just thought I'd post here incase your are here. Made my day.

Surely that’s some sort of crime now? Assault with a deadly ribbon or something...

30Sophoclesthefox
Have slung some bulbs in the flowerbed. Hoping some lovely tulips bloom
Excellent!

Surely that’s some sort of crime now? Assault with a deadly ribbon or something

Donated, hope they are able to appeal but at the very least don’t want to see them personally liable. That’s a tactic that lets only those with deep pockets get justice

I did wonder if committing to paper the idea that women can talk about politics would be seen as a hate crime and cause a flood of blues and twos to the spot.

I wonder where in Scotland they plan to put the gulags?

If a man says the same words is that a crime too?

Shame on all the Scottish fathers of daughters!

Scottish fathers of daughters have had v little to do with this really, it's the result of complex political manoeuvres and definitely not something the electorate has called for or supported

They need to be alerted to it through other means then. Seriously, it's time the men got behind their woman!

@MenopausalCrone the men of Scotland have no interest in getting behind their women unless it involves both parties being undressed at the same time. It’s been a long long time since men anywhere cared enough about women and children to want to protect them.

And before I inevitably get jumped on, yes I know some men do stand up for women and children, but men as a whole don’t generally go for the protector role anymore.

@ArabellaScott ahh thanks for answering! I had thought that this meant self ID was essentially now law, glad to hear a GRC is still needed though! I am well acquainted at the anger around the defunding of monklands women’s aid, as someone who received so much support and help with them through one of the worst times in my life I’m beyond furious. I just don’t understand anymore, I’m getting less and less tolerant by the day because of it.

Well, I'm not a lawyer! With any luck some of the more knowledgeable women on here will chip in.

In theory it is still possible to exclude males from some certain situations/places (like refuges) no matter if they identify as transwomen. In law the Equality Act could be called upon to make certain posts/places exempt and thereby protect single sex provision.

But in practise, I'm not sure whether this happens.

There have been examples of rapists in women's prisons, Katie Dolatowski was placed in a woman's refuge after assaulting a child in toilets.

My understanding is that any male arrested who declares he is a transwoman will be automatically put in the female estate and assessed for risk afterwards. This was revealed during the recent Judicial review for keeping prisons single sex.

twitter.com/NoXYinXXprisons

I'm sorry, but from what I can tell although self ID is not law, but it may as well be.

Also, I believe it's not permitted to ask someone whether they have a GRC, so whether or not someone has one is a bit of a moot point.