What's it really like for girls when one of their classmates is trans? A short film.

[Shizuku]

I have two DC. Tonight, they played Mario Kart together. After school they played Lego together. Yesterday they played with a dolls house together for a couple of hours. Can anyone guess what sex my DC are?

"So who could object? Perhaps some younger girl, but what could she do? Nothing".

Here's the whole sad point in a nutshell.

It's incredibly depressing to me, how many of these arguments boil down to "you're wrong, but I'm not telling you why. Believe me I know, but I'm not telling you". I've been on here years and seen it countless times. Do people really think it does the trans community any kind of service to present the case like that?

That's not the scientific consensus:

www.endocrine.org/advocacy/position-statements/transgender-health

This tired old position paper again. (From an American trade body for a discipline that stands to gain considerably by capturing 1% of the worlds population as lifelong customers)

The whole piece relies on one paper that's used very disingenuously to make claims said paper doesn't.

This is the paper: pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0c29/7b51e86c5e5227064f743e8d65fbf3138512.pdf
DOI:10.4158/EP14351.RA

Apart from the fact that it's just a meta study filled with lots of qualifications like "maybe" and "could show", the conclusion says:

Current data suggest a biological etiology for transgender identity. Studies of DSD patients and neuroanatomical studies provide the strongest evidence for the organic basis of transgender identity. Sample sizes of the majority of studies to date on this subject are small, and conclusions must be interpreted with caution. Further research is required to assign specific biological mechanisms for gender identity.

To repeat:
Sample sizes of the majority of studies to date on this subject are small, and conclusions must be interpreted with caution.

So, DSD people are again being appropriated for another groups ends (not very intersectional of you hmmm?) and no specific biological mechanisms have been identified, just some uncertain neuroanatomical indicators in a small sample
For which the paper linked above by 334bu seems to provide a possible cause.

And this weak position paper is used everywhere by TRA's, including Crispin Blunt, to claim a biological root to transgender identities.

@Coffeeandcocopops, I’ve said my daughter is LGBT. You need a definition?

“ LGBTQ is an acronym for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer or questioning. These terms are used to describe a person’s sexual orientation or gender identity.”

No my daughter is not transgender, she’s pan sexual.

And @GreyhoundG1rl, quite honestly I don’t expect any sympathy. I do find this section and it’s absolute mania over the rights of trans women who make up such a small percentage of our population narrow minded and bigoted. Quite clearly you are not going to agree but thankfully your voices do not speak for all of us!

It's incredibly depressing to me, how many of these arguments boil down to "you're wrong, but I'm not telling you why. Believe me I know, but I'm not telling you"

Yes

There are a multitude of GC posters who post links and make reasoned arguments, and then there are the above statements and ‘educate yourself’ comments

The cognitive dissonance and brainwashing that is constantly using gender roles and biological sex as interchangeable terms is very concerning.

My 9yr old dd was watching cbbc the other month and a trans male was on a programme as a trainee teacher. He went on to explain to a class of highly bemused primary school children (maybe age 6?) what trans was. I wasn’t expecting it at all as it was part of the home schooling programmes the bbc had launched. After the programme my dd and I talked and her take on it was that what you like to wear and do shouldn’t mean you aren’t a boy/girl. Why are somethings ‘girly’ or ‘boy stuff’. We had a really good discussion about society expectations of gender roles and stereotypes.

I worry that we are becoming further entrenched in our society of how make and females should behave and that gender non conforming children are being railroaded into a medical model of irreversible changes because they don’t fit the mould.

Forget trans, forget everything except this part where younger children are having their right to feel safe and comfortable in a changing room taken away by this one statement. What could she do? Nothing!
We want to teach girls that they can do something if they are uncomfortable or unsafe. This video, which is edited to look warm, and innocent carries a message, grooming girls to be conpliant because nothing will happen even if they do complain.

Quite clearly you are not going to agree but thankfully your voices do not speak for all of us!

I might speak for you. You might speak for me. We have no way of knowing, because you will not say what you mean.

Watched bits of the wee film.

How very sad for the children involved.

Sad for the main character - facing infertility at such a young age, unnecessarily. Sad because apparently they feel their body is somehow 'wrong' and needs to be filled with medication and artificial hormones. Sad because even when they do this they feel that their body is not how it 'should' be. When there is nothing wrong with them or their body, they are fine as they are.

What kind of a situation are we in where the myth being sold is that a child needs to alter their body in order to play with certain toys, wear certain clothes, or live a certain lifestyle?

That poor child has been sorely let down. It makes me very sad, and very angry.

[quote SJaneS49]@Coffeeandcocopops, I’ve said my daughter is LGBT. You need a definition?

“ LGBTQ is an acronym for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer or questioning. These terms are used to describe a person’s sexual orientation or gender identity.”

No my daughter is not transgender, she’s pan sexual.

And @GreyhoundG1rl, quite honestly I don’t expect any sympathy. I do find this section and it’s absolute mania over the rights of trans women who make up such a small percentage of our population narrow minded and bigoted. Quite clearly you are not going to agree but thankfully your voices do not speak for all of us![/quote]
Your daughter is LGBT, so she is a lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans at the same time? Just about everyone comes under the LGBT umbrella, so yes, a little bit of clarification proves helpful.

Not read the whole thread. Buf 12 year old girls playing with Barbies?!? If they were then someone prompted them because no 12 year old girl I know still plays with barbies

@SJaneS49
You quoted my post in detail in order to call me transphobic. I object in the strongest possible terms to being labelled as transphobic and I expect you to justify your comments by explaining exactly HOW children can change sex and thus how my comments are transphobic.
If you can’t do this, then I expect you to report your post in order that it can be deleted.

Playing with barbies does not make you a female.

Your sex is observed, not assigned.

You can change your gender every other week if you want.

What you cannot change is sex.

Telling kids you can IS wrong.

Pumping healthy childrens bodies with hormones and blockers, also wrong.

Telling kids you can like what you like, present how you want and not be victimised for those choices, yes.

Male child wants to play with barbies, wear a dress and have long hair, absolutely fine.

Does it make them a member of the female sex? No.

Should they be treated with kindness and respect, yes. Absolutely yes.

Can they play with girls? Course they can.

And you know how girls tend to play with Barbie dolls more than boys? Do they? My sisters and I didn't have Sindy, Barbie, or other "fashion dolls" when we were young and didn't give a damn about acquiring them.

And you know how trans girls see other girls as their peer group? What child thinks about any "peer group" or whether that group "identifies" as anything. Their friends are Jane who lives down the road or James who lives in the flat on the corner, and that's all they need to be.

Well, a trans girl isn't male That child is absolutely male, an XY person and has been since conception. The child will be a male bodied person throughout life. but she just feels that she is a girl rather than a boy I'd like to hear the child's rationale for this.

Having a gender identity that doesn't match the sex she was assigned at birth. Since you don't seem to have grasped the facts of biology, sex is determined at conception and observed at birth. Gender is made-up stereotypes that in this case are being used to drive a dishonest agenda.

If the child has not yet reached puberty then without a trace of secondary sex hormones he isn't likely to know anything except what it is to be a child and play with his friends.

Trans girl on using changing rooms - "So who could object? Perhaps some younger girl, but what could she do? Nothing". This must not be allowed to happen. The idea that a male-bodied child could think this acceptable is horrifying - and says much about the person who would think that the "what could she do?" aspect is okay.

mania over trans rights

• Raising a range of safeguarding concerns.

Wilful dismissal of safeguarding concerns, is in itself a safeguarding concern.

...absolute mania over the rights of trans women who make up such a small percentage of our population...

SJaneS49, have another look at this part of your post. Do you never wonder why the whole of society is being turned upside down and inside out for this small percentage of our population.

*"So who could object? Perhaps some younger girl, but what could she do? Nothing".

Here's the whole sad point in a nutshell.*

I just think this should be repeated.

Quite apart from the physical harms - I find it disturbing that children are being told, by people and organisations they trust, that yes they can change sex, and anyone who declines to go along with that statement hates them and wants them dead.

Seems like a way to really raise the psychological harm stakes in an already delicate situation.

So who could object? Perhaps some younger girl, but what could she do? Nothing".
I haven't watched the film and have no intention of doing so, but I'm flabbergasted they thought this was an appropriate point to include.
Blatant and brazen.

@SJaneS49

Thanks but no I’m not going to engage in any kind of debate with you. I personally find many of the transphobic comments on here and in this section in general (and it is a mania, just take a look at the sheer number of posts on the subject) completely unacceptable. They most certainly do not reflect my views or concerns in terms of the rights of women and the struggles we have to contend with in 2921. I can only imagine what my political 26 year old LGBT daughter & her friends would make of this section, nothing positive I’m sure. Luckily, they are the future.

Please do not bother addressing any further comments at or to me as they will not be read.

Aka:

I do not have an argument and cannot coherently refute anything you are saying.

I do not understand why people just drop by to say stuff like this?

Time for this one again

They don't speak for my daughter.

It doesn't matter is she's the only girl in her school who isn't happy to do this. She matters.

Time machine's prolly had to head back... to the FUTURE.

So who could object? Perhaps some younger girl, but what could she do?Nothing

This line gave me actual chills. Why? Because I was a sexually abused child. I was abused by a male relative, we lived in the same house. We weren't allowed locks on bedroom doors so I had no way of keeping him out of my bedroom when my mum was out.
One of the places I felt safest was Brownies/guides precisely because there were no boys/men there. I actually think that if I were a child now he would have joined those groups, claiming he was actually a girl. Not so he could abuse me there necessarily, but just because he could and there would be nothing I could do about it.

Oh and my 14 year old DS, who is LGB ( he disagrees with T being part of it) and his 16 year old brother both agree that you cannot change sex and agree that women need their own spaces. Luckily they are also "the future"