What's it really like for girls when one of their classmates is trans? A short film.

[Shizuku]

@Galvantulang

Yeah this was the line that stuck out for me too. :( I took the screenshot as when I read it at first I couldn't believe it was a direct quote)

The fact is that adults have helped this child to be put on medication which will render them infertile. The child believes it will be fine to tell boys 'later' as they won't be able to tell.

It's awful that the child callously dismisses the younger girls feelings (thanks partly to the person asking questions saying "weren't there some stupid kids in your class?" i.e. Non believers) but also really sad to me that they've been sold this lie as a solution. :(

No child is winning here.

So no @Shizuku this video doesn't help.

And yet there are her friends, happily playing with her and sharing the showers with her. No one dies - just kids being friends and having fun.

Not quite the way it is typically painted with terrified girls locking themselves in cubicles to escape a big, predatory teenage boy with a dress on.

@MiddlesexGirl

You know how kids like to do what other people in their peer group are doing? And you know how girls tend to play with Barbie dolls more than boys? And you know how trans girls see other girls as their peer group?

I know this was a long way up thread but it is truly scary how these observations somehow translate to boys who play with 'girl' toys must be trans girls.

Do you know how to tell the difference between a feminine boy who isn't trans and a feminine girl who is trans?

It's easy - the feminine boy has a male gender identity and the feminine girl has a female gender identity.

@gardenbird48

These days girls tend to stop playing with dolls around 8 or 9. I can't imagine a bunch of high school girls choosing to play with Barbies unless they felt they had to 'be kind' to someone.

good point, only one of my DDs played with barbies and they were ditched long before the end of primary school.

I know a couple of boys who have girls as their entire friendship group - the boys are rather camp and they all have a lovely time together (although sleepovers will be a no-no).

It doesn't mean that the boys should really be girls - those two boys are the perfect illustration of a boy widening the bandwidth of what it means to be a boy (although how we regressed to such narrow sex stereotypes after the Olympic standard boundary pushing of the 1980s I don't know).

We still haven't established any idea of the frame of reference that doesn't involve stereotypes that a boy (or a three year old) would use to determine that he is really a girl.

I also think it is really sad that the child in this video is being encouraged into a situation where at a time when children are extremely conscious of their changing bodies anyway, adults are confirming that this child's body is wrong and needs to be changed fundamentally with powerful drugs.

It struck me when Joppe was in the pool and mentioned that they were constantly worried about their penis being visible and looking enviously at the girls bodies.

If Joppe wasn't trying to present as a girl and constantly worrying about not 'passing', I think a layer of stress would be removed from their life.

Yes, I agree. And it sounds like they are attracted to boys. It would be so much more inclusive to have support around the possibility of growing up as a gay boy.

@UsedUpUsername

It struck me when Joppe was in the pool and mentioned that they were constantly worried about their penis being visible and looking enviously at the girls bodies

I wish somebody could just tell them they will never be a biological girl but that’s okay ... otherwise it will be a life of constant disappointment even if everyone tries to #bekind

She's a bright girl, and will be very aware of the limitations of her transition. The fact that many trans kids seek sperm or egg preservation before they start hormones should tell you that they are not ignorant fools.

And yet there are her friends, happily playing with her and sharing the showers with her. No one dies - just kids being friends and having fun.
You've missed the entire point. Again.

"And it sounds like they are attracted to boys. It would be so much more inclusive to have support around the possibility of growing up as a gay boy."

How does she do that with a female gender identity?

@GreyhoundG1rl

And yet there are her friends, happily playing with her and sharing the showers with her. No one dies - just kids being friends and having fun. You've missed the entire point. Again.

Actually, I've reiterated the entire point. It's not the point that supports your ideology, but it is the point.

Do you know how to tell the difference between a feminine boy who isn't trans and a feminine girl who is trans?
It's easy - the feminine boy has a male gender identity and the feminine girl has a female gender identity.

What is it about the feminine boy that makes him 'trans' rather than a feminine boy?

The fact that many trans kids seek sperm or egg preservation before they start hormones should tell you that they are not ignorant fools.

Are you aware what is involved in egg preservation? It's not like wanking into a pot is for males.

I don't think you've explained yet what this "female gender identity" is.

And yet there are her friends, happily playing with her and sharing the showers with her. No one dies - just kids being friends and having fun.

Not quite the way it is typically painted with terrified girls locking themselves in cubicles to escape a big, predatory teenage boy with a dress on.

It's a short film, with its own agenda. The director likely chose not to include any girls who were not in fact comfortable sharing their private spaces. That's the director's prerogative, of course, but it's hardly proof that all girls are fine with this.

@StellaAndCrow -
Yes, I agree. And it sounds like they are attracted to boys. It would be so much more inclusive to have support around the possibility of growing up as a gay boy.

Yes, that was my thought too. Why rule this out as a possibility when the child is this young.

I see, Shizuku.

All there is to being 'female' is a feeling in your head. I think I've got it now.

Do keep on educating us, it's really helpful.

@StellaAndCrow

I don't think you've explained yet what this "female gender identity" is.

Its a feeling that you just can't explain, quantify or describe, Stella!

You should know that, being 'female'!

Not quite the way it is typically painted with terrified girls locking themselves in cubicles to escape a big, predatory teenage boy with a dress on.

What is your point here? If there is a large, predatory teenage boy or indeed adult in the changing room, I take it you DO think the girls have reason to be terrified? What - without being accused of transphobia - do you suggest they do about it? How will you preserve their rights in law?

Actually, I've reiterated the entire point. It's not the point that supports your ideology, but it is the point.
No. The point of the quote is that the child says quite unambiguously that younger children may object, but they could do nothing.
And you respond with "but look at the child's friends (who have obviously been hand picked to take part in the film) not objecting".
Did you not understand the quote's significance?
You haven't even addressed the point.

Yes! Your one staged, entirely one-sided video from a decade ago is absolutely robust evidence that there are no safeguarding concerns whatsoever and all trans girls should be allowed into all female spaces. And it definitely doesn't matter if any girls feel uncomfortable or if they have religious needs, because they don't deserve the right to single sex spaces free from male bodies. Only trans needs matter, not Muslim ones, not female ones. I get it. I'm educated now, thanks so much.

What is a gender identity?

Please, explain it to me. What are the objective criteria that make up one's gender identity? For instance, if a child comes to you confused over their gender identity, what would you say to them to help them figure it out?

You keep saying that gendered behaviour is different from gender identity. Fine. Gender identity is not stereotypes. So what is it?

She's a bright girl, and will be very aware of the limitations of her transition. The fact that many trans kids seek sperm or egg preservation before they start hormones should tell you that they are not ignorant fools.

Yes, good luck to those girls who start taking puberty blockers in their early teens and then inevitably go on to take testosterone. 'Egg preservation' - a walk in the park.

And yet there are her friends, happily playing with her and sharing the showers with her. No one dies - just kids being friends and having fun.

Not quite the way it is typically painted with terrified girls locking themselves in cubicles to escape a big, predatory teenage boy with a dress on.

Please stop making out this documentary depicts the actual reality. It is a commercial production. It will have been carefully chosen who would be in it and edited to suit what the maker wanted to tell as the story.

Your continued reliance on these tactics really does not add any credibility to your posts.

This is NOT a hard hitting investigative journalistic piece showing both sides of a divisive medical practice.

It really doesn’t take much understanding how these productions get funded to know this is pure bias. It seems from your continued line of presenting this type of ‘evidence’ you think the readers of these threads cannot think for themselves either. I think you really need to read widely on this forum to understand the dynamics better.

The argument that the OP seems to be making is that playing with dolls doesn't make a male child a girl. However, a male-bodied child with a 'girl' gender identity will want to play with dolls because that's what girls do (or have been socialised to do).

This is why children with a 'boy' gender identity in the UK will play football, because over here football is seen as a boys' game while in the States it will be children with a 'girl' gender identity who play soccer.

I kind of get the argument, but it seems very chicken-and-egg to me. What comes first, the behaviour or the identity?

And secondly, again, what are the components of one's 'gender identity'?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

The fact that many trans kids seek sperm or egg preservation before they start hormones should tell you that they are not ignorant fools.

Are you aware what is involved in egg preservation? It's not like wanking into a pot is for males.

Yes I do, because I know several trans boys.

Why aren't you answering the "what is gender identity" questions, op??

@mintessa

She's a bright girl, and will be very aware of the limitations of her transition. The fact that many trans kids seek sperm or egg preservation before they start hormones should tell you that they are not ignorant fools.

Yes, good luck to those girls who start taking puberty blockers in their early teens and then inevitably go on to take testosterone. 'Egg preservation' - a walk in the park.

Having held the hand of a trans boy crying whilst he ponders the options before him, I find your glib "walk in the park" particularly crass.

You've misunderstood again