What's it really like for girls when one of their classmates is trans? A short film.

[Shizuku]

Thanks for the reminder PurpleHoodie, I'll go and water some flowers now.

The more I think about this, the more I believe that white, possibly middle class girls are being the most let down in this.

We live in a culturally diverse area and several of my DDs friends are Muslim girls from religious families. If this situation arose in our school, I would seek support in the Muslim community. I don’t think that the parents of my DDs friends (who do not shake hands with the opposite sex and whose mums do not remove their hijab in my house in case my DH would come home early) would be “kind” or allow their daughters to be told to be “kind”.

I think you could be right wool, sadly.

It's also about safeguarding girls and boys from the POV of permanent harm to their bodies.

@WarriorN

The OP will fully sidesteps all posts relating to any safeguarding WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo

I've noticed that.

Very interesting.

Trans girls aren't a threat.

Yeah, that's not how safeguarding, and the law, works.

I posted this earlier on the thread:

I think the TRAs need to come up with more original, thoughtful, cohesive explanations now because all they are doing is repeating the phrases they have been taught without actually examining what they are saying.

For example - OP's posts below just on this thread alone.

Gendered behaviour and gender identity are 2 different things, which is why some trans girls are tomboys.

You mean like the trans girls who are tomboys?

I just posted a link twice to an article showing that some trans girls are tomboys.

Your posting that to the person who has been posting about trans girls who are tomboys.

being allowed to play with whatever they liked - you know, like the tomboy trans girls.

Time to produce the link showing that some trans girls are tomboys again I think

you were just like those tomboy trans girls in the link above

Seriously, I have to post this again?

You can't debate with someone using the broken record strategy. We see it all the time. Unless we can engage using agreed definitions which we all understand, this will go nowhere. OP didn't come here to debate I don't think. They have said they want to educate. But have failed to do so because they are unwilling to engage.

@Shizuku Why not? In any case, it's not just about threat. It's embarrassing to have to get changed in front of the opposite sex. Everyone knows that and it doesn't help to say "get over it".

Just to be clear - I don't think trans girls are likely to be a threat either - I'm not saying that but I don't understand what happens that means you can guarantee that 100% You can't do that for anyone!

Exactly Gerla. No one can tell people how they feel. Single sex spaces exist for privacy and dignity as well as safety.

Well, perhaps you should fixate a little less on what a trans girl has in her knickers and a little more on who she is as a person.

I've no interest in the content of people's pants, I just don't want to undress with biological males.

Perhaps you should give a little more consideration to female people?

@Shizuku have you actually read my post? About the abuser who would have pretended to be trans just to show he had power over me?
Fuck you. And no doubt I'll be deleted for that. But fuck you. You rape apologist. You should be ashamed.

All the time, the sneering and gloating about women's privacy and dignity being trodden on, the lack of empathy and understanding, don't really endear people in general to transactivists.

Well, perhaps you should fixate a little less on what a trans girl has in her knickers and a little more on who she is as a person

No. She has a penis. That can be used to rape someone. Guess what? That’s why we have single-sex facilities. Otherwise what’s the point of sex segregation? You tell me

I'm so sorry WhatwouldPhyllisCraneDo, both for what happened to you and for the crass way in which a certain poster is downplaying it to avoid ruining their "argument".

I reported that disgusting post Phyllis.

It's a perfect example of the contempt the people championing the trans cause have for women, girls and sexual assault and rape survivors.

Thank you to those who have read and offered support. Sadly I'm all too used to people minimising/victim blaming.

So let me get this straight

Males ( sperm creators ) who feel a certain way should be allowed to access single sex baby grower ( aka female ) spaces because...... they are male and the male preference for the female sex spaces overrides the female preference for female only sex spaces ?

Because what the male wants takes precedence over what the female wants ?

But because that's clearly sexist, it's wrapped up in pseudo scientific waffle ?

Isn't this harmful to the vast majority of trans people who just want to live thier lives without being presented by so called supporters as bullies ?

Phyllis, I'm so sorry.

And I'm sorry for the fact that people think it's okay to come on here and sneer at women who know very well what they're talking about when they talk about safeguarding, and needing single sex spaces, and what it means to lose the ability to name our sex and defend our rights.

OP refuses to think about safeguarding or the importance of sex segregated spaces because she makes the error that so many TRAs make: she is attributing inherent goodness to someone for the simple fact that they are trans.

When Bruce Jenner was splashed all over the cover of Vanity Fair in a bustier (got to prove his "womanhood" and for that you need to be wearing a bustier ) no one was permitted to say anything negative about him and his "stunning bravery".

Boys and girls are different. And a boy who believes he is a girl doesn't suddenly become some paragon of goodness. It doesn't even matter whether or not the majority of men or boys who are trans ever harm anyone- women and girls still retain the right to sex segregated spaces.

I repeat: women and girls have a right to sex segregated spaces.

Why this is even up for debate I don't know.

Yes it is harmful for them too.

The boy with autism who questioned his "gender identity" I taught wouldn't have wanted to change with the girls even if he was allowed, which he wasn't.

And I'm not misgendering; he had no interest in changing his name and wouldn't have known what a pronoun is. But this was around the time that film was created and in the U.K.

I'm trying to be as delicate as possible regarding this, but I am curious OP, are you trans? You seem heavily invested in shutting down female posters regarding this topic and don't seem to be engaging in good faith. If you're not trans, may I ask why you are so determined to speak for trans people, some of who may disagree with you on these points? I understand if it's personal, but your behavior strikes me as odd.

@totalimpatience

So let me get this straight

Males ( sperm creators ) who feel a certain way should be allowed to access single sex baby grower ( aka female ) spaces because...... they are male and the male preference for the female sex spaces overrides the female preference for female only sex spaces ?

Because what the male wants takes precedence over what the female wants ?

But because that's clearly sexist, it's wrapped up in pseudo scientific waffle ?

Isn't this harmful to the vast majority of trans people who just want to live thier lives without being presented by so called supporters as bullies ?

This!

What men want overrides what women want. So women, put up and shut up. That is, in a nutshell, what @Shizuku is saying.

• to be clear, that is the OP, who is repeatedly dismissing the feelings, experiences and expert knowledge of women, because they don't fit with the pat slogans that they are trotting out over and over, no matter how many times they are politely dismantled and clearly shown to be entirely fact-free.