What's it really like for girls when one of their classmates is trans? A short film.

[Shizuku]

@Flaunch

I don’t think you “educating” us has worked out quite as you planned, has it.

So, what about the girls in the film who are not trans (if only we had a word for that) and the gender stereotypes they are perpetuating?

@Shizuku

There are 4 girls in the film - all of them engaging in gender stereotypes.

Only the trans girl is being criticised for it.

That, my fiends, is transphobia.

I don't agree with this comment.

The three girls are being girls, Joppe seems to think that wanting to perform the girly things makes Joppe a girl rather than a non-conforming boy. I am really sad to think that adults are letting this child take powerful hormones which will compromise their health and think that it will make their body indistinguishable from a biological female when it won't - they will always have to take hormones and be medically treated as a male otherwise it could put their life at risk.

Joppe is on puberty blockers and described it that the drug attacks the pituitary gland repeatedly with messages to 'make it work harder' until it then gives up.

That sounds extremely concerning for a person's long term health. Issues with the pituitary gland sound quite serious - diabetes, tumours etc.

I wonder what research has been done into the long term effects of suppressing the function of the pituitary gland. Many serious side effects caused by puberty blockers are known (fits, crumbling skeleton etc and some seem to tie in with some of the pituitary conditions. It seems reckless to artificially cause a healthy pituitary to stop functioning.

We know that the limited GIDS research shows that there are serious issues with essential increases in bone density being inhibited at a crucial time in teenage development (that increase in bone density may never be recovered).

I'm not sure how much research has been done into the psychological effects of preventing normal pubertal brain development (my teenagers are going through it at the moment and you can see a marked difference between their maturity and my younger child who is at an earlier stage).

NICE have said a review of the existing available evidence on gender affirming hormones and on GnRH analogues for children and adolescents with gender dysphoria is to be made available before the end of March. That will be an interesting read.

www.pituitary.org.uk/information/pituitary-conditions/

YOU are the one perpetuating gender stereotypes.

Watch how the other girls interact with her. Do they seem traumatised? Terrified? Or is it just young girls playing together like young girls do

Most of us here have children, and some of us even have grandchildren. We are all very familiar with how children play with each other, and how this often involves the use their imaginations to create different personas.

My granddaughter got a bow and arrow for her birthday last week, and now she's Zelda, warrior princess.

So, what about the girls in the film who are not trans (if only we had a word for that) and the gender stereotypes they are perpetuating?

We have said that performing gender stereotypes doesn't make someone one sex or another. This is true for the other girls as well. I'm not sure what else you expect us to say?

So, what about the girls in the film who are not trans (if only we had a word for that) and the gender stereotypes they are perpetuating

Our point is that we don't want anyone to be trapped into perpetuating and performing gender stereotypes. We don't believe in gender stereotypes.

@mintessa

So, what about the girls in the film who are not trans (if only we had a word for that) and the gender stereotypes they are perpetuating

Our point is that we don't want anyone to be trapped into perpetuating and performing gender stereotypes. We don't believe in gender stereotypes.

So what about the girls in the film who don't happen to be trans who are perpetuating those gender stereotypes?

Literally just said that this doesn't change someone's sex. You need to be much clearer with your language if you are positing a certain view, shizuku, rather than just 'what about'.

Just to be clear, shizuku, as it's hard to tell from your posts: do you believe that performing gender stereotypical actions affects one's sex? Or any kind of actions?

I've long thought that Disney plays a very significant role in promoting very narrow gender stereotypes. As for Barbies, i never had one, never bought one for my daughter, and even though someone bought one for my granddaughter she has zero interest in it. What she likes is gaming, and climbing. My husband bought her a climbing harness last week, so she can practice her skills.

So what about the girls in the film who don't happen to be trans who are perpetuating those gender stereotypes?

That's what us feminists have been working on for years. Teaching our daughters that we value them, and society should value them, for what they do, not what they look like.

So, what about the girls in the film who are not trans (if only we had a word for that) and the gender stereotypes they are perpetuating?

Are you referring to those in a film, being directed by adults?

Listen very carefully, for we have said this many times already: Adults... safeguarding... lies!

@CardinalLolzy

Just to be clear, shizuku, as it's hard to tell from your posts: do you believe that performing gender stereotypical actions affects one's sex? Or any kind of actions?

Time to produce the link showing that some trans girls are tomboys again I think:

www.newsweek.com/transgender-kids-living-identity-develop-cis-children-1471729

So what about the girls in the film who don't happen to be trans who are perpetuating those gender stereotypes

Children naturally explore whatever is put in front of them. If you present a girl with only girly stuff or girly play options, then she has little room for manoeuvre. Some parents really do push highly gendered toys and activities on their children. So limiting.

OP, you still haven't addressed (despite many requests from previous posters) the quote from the film many have expressed concern about - '

"So who could object? Perhaps some younger girl, but what could she do? Nothing"

You must see the power imbalance and unfairness of this statement? Do other children's feelings just not matter?

shizuku, is that a yes or no to my question? I can't tell.

What did I say to get deleted?

Many parents do fantasise about what they imagine their relationship will be like with their future child ( as yet unborn). Some women seem to imagine that a girl child will be their 'best friend' and that they will go out shopping together, and so on......

Some fathers imagine their son will be a tough and competent in sports and so on.....and depending on the parent's own relationship with their mother/father, they project patterns from their own experience when imagining what to expect from their own children.

I can remember as a child just wanting to make mud pies and run and climb and do exciting stuff - but being made to play with dolls (at least initially). In the end, I won and got to play with marbles and cars, although for some reason science sets and things were 'for boys only'. When my first niece was born they were so careful not to give her anything but dolls, tea-sets and the like. I got into trouble for buying her books. It was gendering in action - there was nothing 'natural' about it.

I think there's an entire thread abou that study somewhere here!

Starting with it's methodological constraints: Self referring; spoke to parents of kids; trans kids as young as 3 years old; assumed the gender of the control group (actually self defined them) etc etc.

It is not helpful or healthy to fix a child's identity for them. Childhood is a time, at best, for free play and imagination, and for exploration of what makes one tick. Regardless of sex.

I’m so glad all this sh*t wasn’t around when I was a kid, though there were trans people it wasn’t put into young children’s heads like it is now, if it was then I would have probably been labelled as trans. I hung around with the boys, I played with cars, toy guns and my bmx. I hated Barbies and wearing dresses, I had grazed knees and climbed trees, I am 100% female, I just prefer the company of boys (now men) and am not into fashion/hair/make up. Kids should be able to chose what they want to play with, what they want to wear without being labelled as trans etc..