What's it really like for girls when one of their classmates is trans? A short film.

[Shizuku]

Much as I dislike the fundamental disrespect for women and girls that drips from these threads, I am always cheered at the forensic attention that women pay to the links shared. They never demonstrate what is claimed and - as has been repeatedly pointed out - the video attached clearly highlights the systemic lack of power / autonomy and self determination that even young girls possess when confronted by this ideology.

"So who could object? Perhaps some younger girl, but what could she do? Nothing"

Joppe knows that a girl who is not yet indoctrinated might well object. And Joppe’s answer to that is raw power and putting the female objector in her place. Shut her up. Like all the other females who have been shut up over the ages. This isn’t a feminist utopia, this is bog standard male socialisation in action. Joppe is raised to be paranoid, to expect female challengers, and to expect them to be rightfully shut down. Not a ‘progressive’ outcome.

Rolling out the sexist gender stereotypes from the off.

This film is 10 years old. I would like to see how the 23 year old child is doing now.

Reading the comments after the video, I was struck most of all by the number of people (many of them saying they're also trans) commenting on how cute and pretty and adorable the teenage Joppe is.

As a feminist and a mother to a teenage daughter, being cute and pretty is the absolute last thing I want her to be valued for. It's so regressive and harmful.

@mintessa

Reading the comments after the video, I was struck most of all by the number of people (many of them saying they're also trans) commenting on how cute and pretty and adorable the teenage Joppe is.

As a feminist and a mother to a teenage daughter, being cute and pretty is the absolute last thing I want her to be valued for. It's so regressive and harmful.

I agree. A lot of the comments are weird and about a teenager too. Just wrong in my opinion.

^I was a sexually abused child. I was abused by a male relative, we lived in the same house. We weren't allowed locks on bedroom doors so I had no way of keeping him out of my bedroom when my mum was out.
One of the places I felt safest was Brownies/guides precisely because there were no boys/men there. I actually think that if I were a child now he would have joined those groups, claiming he was actually a girl. Not so he could abuse me there necessarily, but just because he could and there would be nothing I could do about it. ^

I do not understand how any decent-minded person can read that and still insist their/their child's right to validation trumps the right to the safety of other children.

Reading the comments after the video, I was struck most of all by the number of people (many of them saying they're also trans) commenting on how cute and pretty and adorable the teenage Joppe is.

Yes. Strange how the nature of those comments gets overlooked. Well, not really strange.

Typed that so many times now that I can do it with my eyes closed

You can type it many more times, won’t change biology.

@Beowulfa

^I was a sexually abused child. I was abused by a male relative, we lived in the same house. We weren't allowed locks on bedroom doors so I had no way of keeping him out of my bedroom when my mum was out. One of the places I felt safest was Brownies/guides precisely because there were no boys/men there. I actually think that if I were a child now he would have joined those groups, claiming he was actually a girl. Not so he could abuse me there necessarily, but just because he could and there would be nothing I could do about it. ^

I do not understand how any decent-minded person can read that and still insist their/their child's right to validation trumps the right to the safety of other children.

I agree.

But that is what is happening. The prioritization of one group’s need over another.

It has happened to the discussion about Sarah Everard and the violence against women and girls this past week hasn’t it?

I do see it as a pattern that once noted cannot be ignored. There is also a lack of proportionality that becomes apparent.

@Beowulfa

^I was a sexually abused child. I was abused by a male relative, we lived in the same house. We weren't allowed locks on bedroom doors so I had no way of keeping him out of my bedroom when my mum was out. One of the places I felt safest was Brownies/guides precisely because there were no boys/men there. I actually think that if I were a child now he would have joined those groups, claiming he was actually a girl. Not so he could abuse me there necessarily, but just because he could and there would be nothing I could do about it. ^

I do not understand how any decent-minded person can read that and still insist their/their child's right to validation trumps the right to the safety of other children.

Because as I learned quite quickly as a child, some people are cunts. (Insert your preferred word if you don't like cunt).

How are TRAs so tone deaf? We all know that gender non conforming and trans people exist. More power to their elbow, the problem is that the trans umbrella is too broad, and self id is a nightmare. Why can't they get this?

Deadringer

Because if they gatekeep their group and language, how can they demonise women for doing the same?

How can they express concern when they call women phobic for expressing the same concerns?

There are 4 girls in the film - all of them engaging in gender stereotypes.

Only the trans girl is being criticised for it.

That, my fiends, is transphobia.

@Shizuku

There are 4 girls in the film - all of them engaging in gender stereotypes.

Only the trans girl is being criticised for it.

That, my fiends, is transphobia.

You've entirely misread the vast majority of posters if you think ANY of the children are being blamed here!

Or nmaybe you haven't misunderstood anything at all!

OP, your back!

I think you may have missed this part of the discussion, would you be able to give your opinion on this quote from the video?

"So who could object? Perhaps some younger girl, but what could she do?Nothing"

Ooh, you're back.
I still have questions.
Nobody cares if any boy likes Barbies and wants to wear a wig.
It doesn't make him a girl.
Nobody cares if a boy thinks he knows what it's like to be a girl. It doesn't mean he DOES know what it's like to be a girl nor does it make him a girl.
Nobody cares if a boy is attracted to other boys. It still doesn't make him a girl.
Thinking he knows what it's like to be a girl, liking Barbies and long hair, and being attracted to boys, don't change his body and don't mean that other girls should have to put up with him in their changing rooms.
They don't mean that he's a threat, or any more of a threat than any other boy, girls are still entitled to single sex changing rooms.

As well as girls' rights to single sex spaces, we also care about boys like this one*. We care that they've been lied to - that they've been told they can go through female puberty - that they've been told that they will be "just like another girl/woman" when they grow up - that he's been told it will be easy to have children via surrogacy - that they've been told that puberty blockers and cross sex hormones are healthy for their growing bodies.

*I'M DOING MY BEST NOT TO MAKE THIS ABOUT ONE CHILD.

@drspouse

I have questions. Why can't a boy have a peer group of girls? How will this transgirl go through a female puberty when the definition of female puberty is menarche? What's the "biological basis" of transgender identity and how does it differ from a) the "biological basis" of same sex attraction and b) the effect on the brain of the experience of being seen as feminine? How can a "trans tomboy" be diagnosed as gender dysphoric when the diagnostic criteria in children require liking things associated stereotypically with the other sex?

Also, here are my questions. Unanswered so far.

"So who could object? Perhaps some younger girl, but what could she do? Nothing"

Yes, OP. What do you think this attitude conveys about being kind? Is it only a one way kindness system?

I think that this video does not show quite what you think it does. But it certainly is enlightening.

Absolutely no criticism here. Anyone can play with barbies, engage in stereotypical feminine things all the live long day. If you enjoy those things, crack on.

But what you engage in does not make you a member of the female sex.

to all the women here affected by CSA. I'm sorry you went through that and I will do what I can to safeguard children.

OP, you seem to be either unwilling or unable to answer any questions or actually discuss any of the very insightful points made on here by feminists. You seem, in fact, to be arriving with instructions, insults and proclamations.

That's not how a discussion works, I'm afraid.

OP, your gotcha isn’t quite what you think it is. Posters are expressing concern at what the adults - who are, after all, in charge here - are doing. The people who decide what toys are ‘girl toys’ in the first place. Who made this film. Who lied to Joppe.

I don’t know if you have children but many of us who do can see the red flags from miles away. Personally, your accusations leave me cold.

I don’t think you “educating” us has worked out quite as you planned, has it.

Should this (or any other) child detransition, where would they then change?

What is different?