Baroness Jones - Men too have a 6pm curfew

[Mariearistocat]

Baroness Jones has been speaking in the House of Lords today and has called for a curfew to be put in place for men to be banned from going outside after 6pm to help women feel safer on the streets after dark.

Would you support this?

It would definitely be an interesting experiment to give men a curfew night one day a year. And then question those that are out without good reason. It wouldn't make it any safer that night for women of course but may give men pause to think a bit more.

Conversely a 6pm curfew for men would save more mens lives than women given that 32% of male homicides compared to 7% of female occur on the street. (according to the ONS)

It is an interesting talking point for all sorts of reasons. Not least, in my opinion, that it exposes the difficulty with self ID. As others have said under the Green Party rules any male can simply ID out of any (theoretical) restrictions on their freedoms.

It may be interesting to check the stats for violent crimes for France and any other European countries which currently have a general curfew in place, when they become available. I don't mean that such data should be used to impose further curfews, just as a source of information on the effect on street violence and domestic violence. And yes obviously there are all sorts of other factors going on at the moment, but there's no way to do a proper experiment.

Article on Green Party and Women's rights from the Spectator this week (unsure if it has already been linked).

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-green-party-s-growing-contempt-for-women-s-rights

She was not making an actual policy suggestion FFS. She was making a rhetorical point, a really really simple one that all women should immediately see the wisdom of: don't restrict women's movements due to male violence.

Obviously it would be a ridiculous and dangerous as actual policy!

Good on her for making the point.

@lifeturnsonadime

Conversely a 6pm curfew for men would save more mens lives than women given that 32% of male homicides compared to 7% of female occur on the street. (according to the ONS)

It is an interesting talking point for all sorts of reasons. Not least, in my opinion, that it exposes the difficulty with self ID. As others have said under the Green Party rules any male can simply ID out of any (theoretical) restrictions on their freedoms.

Quite.

But the aggressive feminists will tell you that that's because males invite it because they're so aggressive.

Imagine if we said that about a woman.

But the aggressive feminists will tell you that that's because males invite it because they're so aggressive.

Rooty which aggressive feminists are saying that? I genuinely haven't seen anyone saying men who are attacked bring it on themselves.

What they are saying is that it tends to be men who are the aggressors which is the truth and that women shouldn't need to change their behaviour because some men are aggressive.

@lifeturnsonadime

But the aggressive feminists will tell you that that's because males invite it because they're so aggressive.

Rooty which aggressive feminists are saying that? I genuinely haven't seen anyone saying men who are attacked bring it on themselves.

What they are saying is that it tends to be men who are the aggressors which is the truth and that women shouldn't need to change their behaviour because some men are aggressive.

On another thread when it was raised, the response was that since men are predominantly responsible for violence on other men it's their problem.

And yes, that is true, but neither should innocent men.

On another thread when it was raised, the response was that since men are predominantly responsible for violence on other men it's their problem

Well if male on male violence isn't a mens problem then what is it? Surely you're not suggesting it's a woman's problem ?

@lifeturnsonadime

On another thread when it was raised, the response was that since men are predominantly responsible for violence on other men it's their problem

Well if male on male violence isn't a mens problem then what is it? Surely you're not suggesting it's a woman's problem ?

No of course not

But we are now looking to innocent men to help us based on the behaviour of other men, but when they are doing it to men, we don't care?

@MishyJDI

Probably needs to be 8pm so they can get home from work - except for key workers. But yeah, sounds like a good and necessary thing! A great idea. Male violence is the issue.

Of course the suspect in this case was a keyworker so that wouldn't work, would it?

@Overcastcloudy

She was not making an actual policy suggestion FFS. She was making a rhetorical point, a really really simple one that all women should immediately see the wisdom of: don't restrict women's movements due to male violence.

Obviously it would be a ridiculous and dangerous as actual policy!

Good on her for making the point.

I’d rather she provided an accurate definition of a woman and stood by it instead of calling us ‘t*rfs’

Rooty I'm really struggling to follow your logic which appears to be NAMALT.

We know they are not but the problem is that women don't know which men are going to be aggressive which is why women constantly make adjustments to try to be safe.

I was speaking about this to a man yesterday. He said that by the age of 45 he is not scared of being attacked by other men. He had his jaw broken in an alcohol fuelled bar attack in his early 20s. The risks men face from other men are different to the risks women face from men. They happen for different reasons.

By the age of 45 women are still at risk from male violence. If anything I'm more aware of risk in my mid forties than I was in my 20s. The femicide of older women is something that is not talked about so much. Even in their 80s my fil is not afraid to walk alone at night home from the village he lives in but my MIL is and she would get a lift.

There are many innocent men who recognise that misogyny plays a part in the safety of women on the streets. They would most definitely want to take steps to make women feel safer.

I don't think she meant it as a genuine suggestion but if it was, no of course I wouldn't support it.

Male curfews might make some women feel safer but it won't actually help them against the nutters who would ignore the curfew to do harm anyway.

Of course the suspect in this case was a keyworker so that wouldn't work, would it?

It would limit the pool of suspects and mean that it wasn't possible to turn a blind eye to someone because of their position.

@lifeturnsonadime

Rooty I'm really struggling to follow your logic which appears to be NAMALT.

We know they are not but the problem is that women don't know which men are going to be aggressive which is why women constantly make adjustments to try to be safe.

I was speaking about this to a man yesterday. He said that by the age of 45 he is not scared of being attacked by other men. He had his jaw broken in an alcohol fuelled bar attack in his early 20s. The risks men face from other men are different to the risks women face from men. They happen for different reasons.

By the age of 45 women are still at risk from male violence. If anything I'm more aware of risk in my mid forties than I was in my 20s. The femicide of older women is something that is not talked about so much. Even in their 80s my fil is not afraid to walk alone at night home from the village he lives in but my MIL is and she would get a lift.

There are many innocent men who recognise that misogyny plays a part in the safety of women on the streets. They would most definitely want to take steps to make women feel safer.

What about my logic do you not get?

The fact that you appear to be saying that men are not responsible for male violence.

That you are saying that we should be concerned about the feelings of innocent men and male on male violence as much as we are about the very real issue of violence against women where ever that violence takes place.

I don't understand why you don't believe this is a male problem to resolve.

@lifeturnsonadime

The fact that you appear to be saying that men are not responsible for male violence.

That you are saying that we should be concerned about the feelings of innocent men and male on male violence as much as we are about the very real issue of violence against women where ever that violence takes place.

I don't understand why you don't believe this is a male problem to resolve.

Yes, I am saying that. Absolutely

Personally I think it would be an utterly brilliant idea if for one night a year men did not go out after 6pm......

... that it became a thing ... and as a man to be seen out after that time was unacceptable.... that it was a recognition of what women are living with and that men are responsible....

.... Can u imagine how liberating that night would be for women - going out, with freedom and without fear?

@loveyouradvice

Personally I think it would be an utterly brilliant idea if for one night a year men did not go out after 6pm......

... that it became a thing ... and as a man to be seen out after that time was unacceptable.... that it was a recognition of what women are living with and that men are responsible....

.... Can u imagine how liberating that night would be for women - going out, with freedom and without fear?

Yeah it would be perfect, because women never , ever have problems with each other.

I guess they'd be statistically very much less likely to be sexually harassed or assaulted though, so there's that.

If there was a curfew, then there would be many men who would be excluded, not just key workers such as police, fire and NHS. There would be lorry/taxi/delivery drivers, supermarket and warehouse/factory workers, anyone who works shifts.
Others have correctly pointed out that domestic violence would most probably increase.
I am also totally against "collective punishment" which is exactly what this would be.
I also totally agree that sentences for violent crime and domestic abuse should be made far harsher, instead of the all too often "slap on the wrist" approach such as community orders and suspended terms.
Start educating boys early on in their lives, don't encourage aggresive behaviour, crack down on the availability of porn.

I am also totally against "collective punishment" which is exactly what this would be.

Do you see the restrictions on liberty enacted by various governments (eg curfew in France, that's what the land of 'Liberté, égalité, fraternité' is doing ) in regard to covid as 'collective punishment'? It's not intended as a punishment but as a means of preventing harm to parts of their population. That's the more exact analogy.

ErrolTheDragon

The curfews and other measures are for everyone (apart from key workers) they do not discriminate in any way.
Imagine Covid wasn't with us and everything was back to normal.
Impose a 6:00PM curfew for all men (which wouldn't be all men as I pointed out earlier). There would be no evening sports, clubs, organisations for 49% of the population, no leisure time outside of work, no going to pubs, restaurants, cinemas etc.
The suggestion is absolutely ludicrous, and would have such a detrimental effect on the economy and mental health, that it would make Covid look like a stroll in the park.

Great idea the women can take over the shit jobs usually done by men at night. This I'd love to see.
I hope they all refuse to go to work, well they'll have to if they can't go out.
Another way women aren't equal, it's a bloody laugh, it's not the patriarchy doing this, it's women.