Baroness Jones - Men too have a 6pm curfew

[Mariearistocat]

Baroness Jones has been speaking in the House of Lords today and has called for a curfew to be put in place for men to be banned from going outside after 6pm to help women feel safer on the streets after dark.

Would you support this?

Probably needs to be 8pm so they can get home from work - except for key workers. But yeah, sounds like a good and necessary thing! A great idea. Male violence is the issue.

Hmm. So you will have a list of key workers. Doctors, nurses, carers, maintenance engineers, electricians, gas workers, ambulance drivers, paramedics, firemen, emergency response co-ordinators, water mains repairmen. Then you have refuse collectors, delivery drivers, HGV drivers, factory workers, power station workers, miners, bar staff, door security, cinema and theatre workers. Oh, and police, obviously. You will have safer streets, and nowhere to go.

Who would actually qualify for quarantine? Accountants, marketing tossers and teachers. This can't be a one-off thing. What you really need for it to work is a segregated society. I don't blame you for feeling that way, but I don't see how else it can work. You need women to run every aspect of society.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Yet men are still free, it's women who are restricted because of their actions

No women are not restricted. There is no curfew for women. No requirement for a woman to have a male escort/protector to leave the home. Self restriction due to fear and anxiety are nothing like police state enforced curfews.

That was precisely the point being made, @PlanDeRaccordement

Do you really not see it?

@TravellingJack

I wish she'd said within the hours of darkness, rather than 6pm, as that's what the self-imposed women's curfew comes down to for many of us.

I saw a post on social media today, reminding women that if they have a smart watch with GPS, it may have a function that sends out an alert to key contacts if you fall or get hit by a car etc, and that this function can also be activated if you tap the screen, say when someone is about to grab you. Great... but yet another accommodation women have to make to try to protect themselves. How about instead we tag all men and track their movements and activities? Certainly be easier to prove innocence or guilt by location when needed... but wait, that would infringe on their freedoms, darn it. Guess I'll just have to keep restricting my own movements and living with a constant low-level fear that I might be in the wrong place at the wrong time in the wrong outfit...

Women commit crimes as well so if you want all potential criminals tagged then that includes you and me.

@AIMD

I’ve seen people responding to this as though it was a suggestion that was actually going to be taken forward. I think the comment was more to make a point about women being asked to not go out late to keep themselves safe.

It’s shocking the amount of people commenting how awful it is she made the suggestion when that exactly what women are repeatedly told to do to keep themselves safe.

What’s shocking is that she’s happy to use women’s fear for publicity for herself. If she actually cared about women’s fear she’d have left that misogynistic party and denounced them.

The only person who has benefitted from this suggestion is Baroness Jones who has been able to retain her delusion of being relevant and having someone of note to say

‘something’ not ‘someone’ in last sentence

Can’t type when angry.

What’s shocking is that she’s happy to use women’s fear for publicity for herself. If she actually cared about women’s fear she’d have left that misogynistic party and denounced them.

The only person who has benefitted from this suggestion is Baroness Jones who has been able to retain her delusion of being relevant and having someone of note to say

👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼

Absolutely.

@AIMD

I need to get offline. The amount of people who think she was making a serious suggestion to pass curfew into legislation is actually causing me chest pains.

I wonder if these people go running to the window when people say “it’s raining cats and dogs”

It’s more that I want to hear serious policy suggestions.

The idea that you counteract murder with “talking points” or “blue sky thinking” or “imagineering” is jarring my jaw out of alignment.

Maybe I need to be more tolerant of the idea that viral messaging SM frippery is now part of the political process. I don’t know and I’m still too annoyed to think about it dispassionately.

I do think men, people, entities who want to understand the issue will understand the issue, and those that need these weird “thought experiments” to get it mostly just aren’t capable of the empathy anyway.

Can we be clear though, that those of us who don’t like what Jenny Jones said aren’t striking a pose or failing to understand, we just honestly disagree?

So.. now you've seen the reaction to that talking point @RickiTarr can you suggest a specific something else? Something that would pop your jaw back into place?

Because what I see is a lot of people challenging their own perceptions, or having them challenged. I would agree we shouldn't have to do this in 2021, but it seems we do... so what next/instead?

@RickiTarr
That’s a fair point of course more concrete steps would be helpful.

However I have seen many many comments on social media in which people apparently think a curfew on men was being suggested as a likely reality and arguing how unfair it would be without at all being aware of the irony.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

So.. now you've seen the reaction to that talking point *@RickiTarr* can you suggest a specific something else? Something that would pop your jaw back into place?

Because what I see is a lot of people challenging their own perceptions, or having them challenged. I would agree we shouldn't have to do this in 2021, but it seems we do... so what next/instead?

I already said what I said about sentencing, so that’s a really serious suggestion.

Looking more at your angle, though, what also flashed through my head yesterday when I saw the story was “If we are doing empathy stunts, then they need to feel our FEAR, not our irritation at being inconvenienced”. I’m afraid that’s as far as I’ve got in trying to engage with your POV on it. I will think about it.

I don’t want to row about it though. There’s space to disagree and we are all fundamentally in the same side here, which is against male violence.

[quote AIMD]@RickiTarr
That’s a fair point of course more concrete steps would be helpful.

However I have seen many many comments on social media in which people apparently think a curfew on men was being suggested as a likely reality and arguing how unfair it would be without at all being aware of the irony.[/quote]
Yes I can see that (I mean I can see your point, I’m not watching SM), and I hope people are pointing it out to the dim Herberts. It also kind of proves my scepticism that “talking points” work though doesn’t it? They don’t get it, and the ones that do probably already did(?)

I think the fact that this came from the party of “non-men” was what really solidified my (extreme) annoyance yesterday. I am trying to calm down.

“If we are doing empathy stunts, then they need to feel our FEAR, not our irritation at being inconvenienced”. I’m afraid that’s as far as I’ve got in trying to engage with your POV on it. I will think about it. That isn't my POV, never has been! So you don't have to engage with it on my account!

And I a read your sentencing suggestions in much the same light as I read the curfew suggestion!

Oddly though @RickiTarr you are one of two posters who has just told me I do advocate the violence / fear angle! Mmmm!

And I a read your sentencing suggestions in much the same light as I read the curfew suggestion!

Now you’ve piqued my interest. Why do you see them as being equivalent? Is it that you think they’re equally unobtainable?

To me, the biggest practical difference is that one is legally possible and the other just isn’t.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Oddly though *@RickiTarr* you are one of two posters who has just told me I do advocate the violence / fear angle! Mmmm!

Oh hang on. Crossed wires. I didn’t mean to say that. What have you read as meaning that?

What I was saying was that I take you to advocate for “talking point/thought experiment” type tactics @CuriousaboutSamphire

I was further saying that the Jenny Jones “talking point” works by provoking empathy at the inconvenience and limitations women face daily.

I was also saying (as I think we are all clear on!) that I don’t like the talking point approach.

However I then said if we are doing the talking point approach, one based on making men feel our fear rather than our inconvenience, would be my preference. (Although god knows how that works and it’s probably an awful idea but it’s as far as my thinking has taken me thus far.)

I was most definitely not saying that I understand you to be advocating for a fear based approach.

Does that untangle the misunderstanding?

@RickiTarr

And I a read your sentencing suggestions in much the same light as I read the curfew suggestion!

Now you’ve piqued my interest. Why do you see them as being equivalent? Is it that you think they’re equally unobtainable?

To me, the biggest practical difference is that one is legally possible and the other just isn’t.

I suspect neither are possible, for different interpretations of the same reason.

I'd quite like your suggestions to be given serious time in the HoC/L. I think it would cause a similar debate.

And yes, that completely untangles that. I'm happy to forget I ever misinterpreted it 😊

To any women who have sons, would you REALLY want their freedoms taken from them because they are seen as a potential criminal.

Well, yes. If the choice is between my daughter being safe and my son being inconvenienced or my son being safe and my daughter being in danger I'd pick the first. So would my son.

@JurgenKloppsCat

Probably needs to be 8pm so they can get home from work - except for key workers. But yeah, sounds like a good and necessary thing! A great idea. Male violence is the issue.

Hmm. So you will have a list of key workers. Doctors, nurses, carers, maintenance engineers, electricians, gas workers, ambulance drivers, paramedics, firemen, emergency response co-ordinators, water mains repairmen. Then you have refuse collectors, delivery drivers, HGV drivers, factory workers, power station workers, miners, bar staff, door security, cinema and theatre workers. Oh, and police, obviously. You will have safer streets, and nowhere to go.

Who would actually qualify for quarantine? Accountants, marketing tossers and teachers. This can't be a one-off thing. What you really need for it to work is a segregated society. I don't blame you for feeling that way, but I don't see how else it can work. You need women to run every aspect of society.

You need women to run every aspect of society.

Yes please. I'll have that.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Meh! that's not her immediate point. A point based in the immediate aftermath of the death of a young woman. After the immediate SM comments about a young woman walking home alone. About the social acceptance of women living with a curfew. About women living in fear.

It is possible to make a point without including every possible circumstance a man might choose to be violent towards a woman.

Why the fuck us any woman criticizing this?

Because most attacks, abuse and rapes happen inside the home and whether literal or flippant she is effectively advocating allowing these rates to sky rocket?

Because it's sexist?

Because it will make the problem worse?

Any of the above.

What has happened is horrendous, the rates of women being attacked, harassed and murdered is horrendous. Obviously. Any sane person thinks that.

But the Green Party have lost the plot. Aye, great idea lads. Keep all of the men inside at 6pm (where they are statistically far more likely to abuse of various forms or murder a woman). And in the name of sexism....you know that thing where you treat people a certain way because of their sex 🙄

Wee Jeffrey won't be able to go for his paper but I'm sure Shug will say 'here lads, the green party says we've not to go out and be predators so we'd better not'.

Emma Watson had it bang on. For change to happen, men and women need to come together, be educated, listen, speak, and grow.

@CuriousaboutSamphire
Do you really not see it?

Er no? See what? I really cannot tell who is being serious on here with the calls for legislating a police state curfew for men to make women feel safer and who is joking. Really. Sarcasm just misses the mark with me unless it is in person.

I suppose there are people who think Schrödinger was talking about a real cat