What do you think of Andy Ngo?

[ThroughTheBarsOfARhyme]

This is a bit of a tenuous link to feminism, it’s probably more about free speech, but I saw that a member of Mumford & Sons was criticised for praising his book (about antifa) and that his book had previously been banned from Amazon. It seems a bit like TRA tactics and a similar response to Abigail Shrier’s book. I’ve just bought his book to read but I was interested in other’s opinions of him and/or the book. Is he speaking the truth and people are trying to suppress it (similar with feminists) or is he exaggerating and not someone to praise?
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/mumford-sons-winston-marshall-taking-time-to-examine-blindspots-after-praising-andy-ngos-unmasked-book-12241592

I appreciate this really isn’t feminism so I will ask for it to be moved if people think it should be.

Hibari

"But she's talking about anti-white racism and how great Parler is. Gonna take her anti-left comments with a bag or two of salt."

I think your moral compass needs recalibrating.

@cinammonbuns

‘A bit bigoted’. I’m guessing you aren’t Muslim.

And he has said many more bigoted things but you all seem adverse to using Google and I’m not going to waste my time doing that for you.

Burden of proof is on you. Otherwise I could claim random American journalist bloke has saved four children from a fire, moonlights for Doctors Without Borders as a orthopaedics specialist, and played a leading role in the renovation of the Globe theatre.

And tell you to google it all.

This seems to be a bit of a mindbender, but I don't approve of mobs attacking people. To get me on board with this, you are going to have to tell me something like that he's actually Pinochet in disguise and all the people hitting him were bereaved families.

@PottingCompost no the burden of proof is not on me. You have no problem using the internet when trying to find information that supports your view but need somebody else to do it for you when it does not.

I am happy to bill you £50 an hour for internet research.

If your not willing to pay that, then do it yourself unless I won’t believe you actually research and find a balanced point of view.

And I also never said I supported anybody attacking anybody. Please get your facts right first before you post. I simply did he was a right wing grifter. I’ll leave you to show me evidence he is not.

@NecessaryScene1

Excusing their behaviour because you think they're the good guys,and because white supremacists or whatever you want to call them have done worse, is abhorrent imo.

Exactly. We're busy opposing violent extremists on both sides, but people like jj1968 don't care about the violence, they care about the claimed motivations.

If the (alleged) motivation is bad, then it's bad, even if not violent - hence jj1968 is anti-Ngo. It the (alleged) motivation is good, then it's good even if violent - hence jj1968 is pro-Antifa. But jj1968 has no principles on violence at all. The ends justify the means.

And hence jj1968 promotes right-wing violence - by making excuses for the left-wing violence he legitimates violence as a method thus encouraging it in the right.

jj1968 is a dangerous extremist and a threat to democracy. And I want jj1968 to post more so everyone sees exactly what we're opposing here.

Exactly. We're busy opposing violent extremists on both sides, but people like jj1968 don't care about the violence, they care about the claimed motivations.

You think motivations aren't important? That the communists who fought against the Nazi party were just as bad really, a view shared incidentally by much of the German middle class who were quite susceptible to being whipped up by right wing propanganda against minorities and so called 'violent' left wingers? That we should see both sides to the Battle of Cable Street? That those who physically opposed far right thugs smashing up minority owned businesses in the 70s and 80s were just as bad as the racists? That the kids who came out onto the streets of Whitechapel after Tommy Robsinson led a violent march there and fought off the EDL had no right to protect their community?

Were our grandparents who fought in the second world war as bad as Nazis?

@PottingCompost and as I said I have absolutely no interest in convincing you or anybody of anything. You clearly have no interest in any information that contradicts your views and I would not waste my valuable time researching for you when you are clearly already convinced. I am simply questioning the ridiculous statements stated on here.

If your not willing to pay that, then do it yourself unless I won’t believe you actually research and find a balanced point of view

I know it's considered bad form to comment on grammar, but I certainly would not pay you £50 per hour to carry out research if the end result turned out as badly written as the sentence above.

@MissBarbary i agree it is ‘bad form’. I am extremely disappointed you declined my offer, I was really banking on that £50. I presume this means you will be doing the research yourself?

@MissBarbary

I'm always amazed that people throwing out accusations of Nazi seem to have no knowledge of Stalinism ad Maoism.

The apology given by Winston Marshall was a perfect example of the Stalinist and Maoist approach to correcting wrong thinking.

I did not point out the horrific grammar and spelling in this comment as it’s ‘bad form’ but since we want to be grammar pedants .

[quote cinammonbuns]@PottingCompost and as I said I have absolutely no interest in convincing you or anybody of anything. You clearly have no interest in any information that contradicts your views and I would not waste my valuable time researching for you when you are clearly already convinced. I am simply questioning the ridiculous statements stated on here.[/quote]
pot, kettle, much

Andy Ngo is a racist liar, there is no other explanation for this comments on Muslims in London. He deliberately edits his footage and presents information in a way to distort what happened and minimise far right violence. He has doxed left wing journalists sometimes placing their lives at risk given the current state of play in the US. He also clearly has a close relationships that go beyond objective journalism with some far right groups who are openly violent. He is of them, not a Nazi in the traditional sense of the word perhaps, but a man who is fully committed to acting as a propagandist for their movement and the violence it pursues. And if you turn up on the streets with a mob of heavily armed racists who are ready and eager to commit violence and you end up getting hurt then frankly tough shit.

And there we have it. jj DOES think Andy Ngo deserved to be attacked.

Do you have any proof for any of your accusations against him, as listed above?I seem to remember the accusations of him doxing journalists were proven to be absolute bollocks, on twitter. Unless this is a new accusation.

I'm not suggesting posters pay me £50 per hour.

Your position however is nonsensical. You throw out a "fact" and then dictate that it is up to someone else to disprove your one - line fact.

Given your inability to recognise the Stalinist over tones in the grovelling apology by Winston Marshall I don't think your knowledge of extremist politics will be terribly extensive or impressive; certainly not £50 per hour.

@PottingCompost no the burden of proof is not on me. You have no problem using the internet when trying to find information that supports your view but need somebody else to do it for you when it does not.

Yes, this is actually the way it works.

Person A: This is what I think and here is why:
Person B: I disagree and here is why:

This is not the way it works:

Person A: This is what I think and here is why:
Person B: I disagree and you must google my evidence for me.

Why on earth would anyone take person B seriously? It's a good job you have no interest in convincing anybody of anything.

@nauticant

This business of MN being on the alt-right and the screeds of mind-numbing browbeating deliberately miss that the shift in FWR over the past few years has been a growing dislike of authoritarianism. That's it.

It's interesting to see how some people absolutely loathe this growing awareness.

Yup.

@LangClegsInSpace point me to where @MissBarbary has provided evidence of anything.

@MissBarbary again where did I say anything about Winston Marshall. You do love to pull assertions out of thin air.

@jj1968 "You think motivations aren't important? "

We think all extreme belief systems are convinced of and extol the purity of their motivations. Left and right.

We are pointing out that in this case, you are using your moral judgement about purity of motivation to defend a group who have actually perpetrated extreme violence, and are denigrating a personality who has not commited any violence, based on your perception of his motivations.

What worries me is not the extreme violence of the far left, antifa are just out of control idiots, it is the non violent insidious power tactics of Critical Theory, which looks increasingly like Marxism-Leninism or Maoism. So yes motivations are very important.

I think she's got a good reason to criticise the left.
So does Aayan Hirsi Ali.

Oh goodness not the Red Scare. Yes communism is coming to take away our free speech.

Well, of course you should believe me when I tell you he's a Nazi. Just use Google and you'll find lots of other people saying it! And if you think this isn't good evidence, or you have any questions or doubts about what appears to be a smear campaign perpetrated by vicious, unscrupulous scumbags, it's clearly because you are Nazis too.

How the hell can these people not hear themselves? I can certainly see how this kind of "argument" works with people who are weak-minded, credulous, easily intimidated, or in the presence of someone who's going to back up the "argument" with physical violence. But it's like they don't even understand what reason, logic and evidence are - the only communication tools they have are shaming and bullying others and they get big mad when it doesn't work.

[quote cinammonbuns]**@LangClegsInSpace* point me to where @MissBarbary* has provided evidence of anything.[/quote]
She hasn't made any claims, so what does she need to provide evidence of? She's given her opinion on a couple of things, which is not the same thing.

One of the books in the article Andy Ngo quoted from the Mosque said "Women should wear the hijab to show they are modest and to avoid molestation." I'm sure everyone is on board with that here.

@allmywhat another poster who can’t read. I called him a right wing grifter not a Nazi. The comprehension in this country must be pretty poor based on this thread.

His own politics are irrelevant surely.
The point is, is he making stuff up, or not?
As adults we should be able to strip away anyone's editorialising and look at the facts.

Theres no reason to believe he is making up the riots and damage etc he reports on. So that is valuable work imo.

Can someone define alt right? As distinct from merely right wing. Some people seem to use it meaning anti woke, but there most be more to it than that.
Is racism a neccessary feature, is it authoritarian?

The conspiracy threads shared on this thread are certainly believed by the weak minded I agree. The bullying of those who refuse to agree with the alt right is shameful @all