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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What do you think of Andy Ngo?

316 replies

ThroughTheBarsOfARhyme · 10/03/2021 21:12

This is a bit of a tenuous link to feminism, it’s probably more about free speech, but I saw that a member of Mumford & Sons was criticised for praising his book (about antifa) and that his book had previously been banned from Amazon. It seems a bit like TRA tactics and a similar response to Abigail Shrier’s book. I’ve just bought his book to read but I was interested in other’s opinions of him and/or the book. Is he speaking the truth and people are trying to suppress it (similar with feminists) or is he exaggerating and not someone to praise?
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/mumford-sons-winston-marshall-taking-time-to-examine-blindspots-after-praising-andy-ngos-unmasked-book-12241592

I appreciate this really isn’t feminism so I will ask for it to be moved if people think it should be.

OP posts:
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allmywhat · 12/03/2021 13:41

allmywhat another poster who can’t read. I called him a right wing grifter not a Nazi. The comprehension in this country must be pretty poor based on this thread.

oops sorry, for some unfathomable reason I got you confused with the other posters on this thread who were arguing the same kind of points as you before you came along. Similar writing styles.

cinammonbuns · 12/03/2021 13:41

@7Days and another poster who can’t use Google.
I guess I’ll finally have to help

Upon up Google on your smartphone
Type into the search bar ‘Alt right’
Press the search button

Countless definitions will be there for you to look at.

AdHominemNonSequitur · 12/03/2021 13:47

[quote LangClegsInSpace]^@PottingCompost no the burden of proof is not on me. You have no problem using the internet when trying to find information that supports your view but need somebody else to do it for you when it does not.^

Yes, this is actually the way it works.

Person A: This is what I think and here is why:
Person B: I disagree and here is why:

This is not the way it works:

Person A: This is what I think and here is why:
Person B: I disagree and you must google my evidence for me.

Why on earth would anyone take person B seriously? It's a good job you have no interest in convincing anybody of anything.[/quote]
@cinammonbuns

You have repeatedly accused several highly intelligent people of being stupid, directly in a really nasty, sneery way.

You are falling prey to multiple logical fallacies, including but not limited to ad hominem attack and burden of proof.

What you are currently doing even has a name (burden of proof) which @LangClegsInSpace has very patiently tried to explain to you now several times but you either can't or won't understand.

I would posit that it is you who are hard of understanding and should google logical fallacies so you don't keep falling into their grip.

Here you go, I'll save you the bother.
Would't want you to remain unconciously incompetant.

www.logicalfallacies.org/

www.logicalfallacies.org/burden-of-proof.html

allmywhat · 12/03/2021 13:47

However, I'm glad that you have clarified Ngo is not a Nazi! I agree he is right-wing and possibly alt-right, since that's a nebulous definition. If that is the extent of your argument then you probably didn't need to be such an arsehole about it.

jj1968 · 12/03/2021 13:48

@SunsetBeetch

Andy Ngo is a racist liar, there is no other explanation for this comments on Muslims in London. He deliberately edits his footage and presents information in a way to distort what happened and minimise far right violence. He has doxed left wing journalists sometimes placing their lives at risk given the current state of play in the US. He also clearly has a close relationships that go beyond objective journalism with some far right groups who are openly violent. He is of them, not a Nazi in the traditional sense of the word perhaps, but a man who is fully committed to acting as a propagandist for their movement and the violence it pursues. And if you turn up on the streets with a mob of heavily armed racists who are ready and eager to commit violence and you end up getting hurt then frankly tough shit.

And there we have it. jj DOES think Andy Ngo deserved to be attacked.

Do you have any proof for any of your accusations against him, as listed above?I seem to remember the accusations of him doxing journalists were proven to be absolute bollocks, on twitter. Unless this is a new accusation.

Gibson had apparently learned that members of antifa were planning on meeting up at the NE Couch cidery after the day’s protests wrapped up. He told his followers to meet him them there at 6 pm.

After stepping away from the far-right flag-wavers to relay this information to his livestream followers, Ben temporarily stopped filming. When he switches the stream back on, he’s walking through NE Portland neighborhoods with the far-right protesters and Ngo, the conservative writer. They’re headed toward Cider Riot.

As the group waits, they discuss their weaponry. A few men try to guess which way the wind's blowing to avoid getting "spray" in their eyes, presumably when they use it against members of antifa. Another man holds a thick wooden dowel, and practices swinging it like a baseball bat. A woman carries a red brick in her hand. Some don goggles, helmets, and tactical gloves.

Ngo doesn’t film any of the conversations, and smiles when the group cracks jokes.

It was Ben’s video that helped Portland Police Bureau (PPB) confidently secure arrest warrants against Gibson and five other members of Patriot Prayer who followed him to Cider Riot that afternoon. On August 22, a Multnomah County grand jury indicted Gibson and five other members of Patriot Prayer on felony charges for inciting a riot. Several of the men face multiple charges, including assault and unlawful use of a weapon.

www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2019/08/26/27039560/undercover-in-patriot-prayer-insights-from-a-vancouver-democrat-whos-been-working-against-the-far-right-group-from-the-inside

Is Ngo acting as an objective journalist here? Did who do what any ethical journalist would have done and try to contact police to warn them of upcoming violence? Or is he part of an armed group, intent on violence, in which his role may not to be directly participate in that violence but to act as a propagandist after the event? And does the fact antifa defended themselves make them just as bad?

I suspect the purpose of the both sides narrative is that it justifies any violence, for any reason, if it was met with counter violence or even in this case self defence. That is very convenient to violent far right groups who can mount attacks with an embedded hack who will quite happily present edited footage after the event that attempts to distort what happened and present the attackers as victims. And sadly some people will lap this kind of crap up as this thread shows.

cinammonbuns · 12/03/2021 13:50

Oh don’t worry @AdHominemNonSequitur I’ll save myself the reading. As you said about @MissBarbary they was merely stating an opinion so did not need to provide evidence.

I will clarify. My opinion is that Andy Ngo is a right wing grifter. This may not be a fact, simply my opinion, right? Therefore I do not need to provide evidence. Glad we are clear.

nauticant · 12/03/2021 13:53

I’ll save myself the reading.

"I will make sure I encounter nothing to disturb my fixed views" is a nice short cut in how to process this. Saves on an awful lot of thinking.

allmywhat · 12/03/2021 13:53

And there we have it. jj DOES think Andy Ngo deserved to be attacked.

Actually quoted in jj's long post above and it's not refuted. Not even mentioned other than a reference how "antifa defended themselves."

Yes, it's excruciatingly clear.

7Days · 12/03/2021 13:55

@cinammonbuns
I dont think you understand chat forums, or political discussions.

AdHominemNonSequitur · 12/03/2021 14:00

@nauticant

I’ll save myself the reading.

"I will make sure I encounter nothing to disturb my fixed views" is a nice short cut in how to process this. Saves on an awful lot of thinking.

Embarrasingly accurate.
@cinammonbuns, Score. That's another one. The fallacy of personal incredulity

I'll put it here so they can not read it:
www.logicalfallacies.org/personal-incredulity.html

but you are really racking them up.

cinammonbuns · 12/03/2021 14:03

@nauticant no I have actually simply used the information provided to me by the poster. I was expressing an opinion so I do not need to give evidence so I do not have any burden of proof.

I am simply using their own logic.

cinammonbuns · 12/03/2021 14:03

@7days I don’t think you understand Google but let’s agree to disagree.

SunsetBeetch · 12/03/2021 14:04

I see Ngo has denied the accusations and his lawyer wrote to the newspaper asking them to retract. Are "Ben"'s videos available anywhere?

7Days · 12/03/2021 14:05

I think you're getting the hang of it Cinnamin

cinammonbuns · 12/03/2021 14:05

@AdHominemNonSequitur what is accurate is that you refuse to say @MissBarbary needs to provide evidence for their opinion but insist I must. I would call that ‘hypocrisy’. I’ll let you look up the link for the definition of that.

AdHominemNonSequitur · 12/03/2021 14:06

[quote cinammonbuns]@nauticant no I have actually simply used the information provided to me by the poster. I was expressing an opinion so I do not need to give evidence so I do not have any burden of proof.

I am simply using their own logic.[/quote]
That arguement from repetition logical fallacy:
www.logicalfallacies.org/argument-from-repetition.html

cinammonbuns · 12/03/2021 14:08

For some reason I cannot quote the post but here is the logic I was told we were using.

What do you think of Andy Ngo?
cinammonbuns · 12/03/2021 14:10

@AdHominemNonSequitur if we are going to talk about repetition I would take a hard look at your own posts.

AdHominemNonSequitur · 12/03/2021 14:11

hy·poc·ri·sy (hĭ-pŏk′rĭ-sē)
n. pl. hy·poc·ri·sies

  1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
  2. An act or instance of such falseness.

I don't think it applies to @MissBarbary
You've still not looked up "burden of proof" have you.

allmywhat · 12/03/2021 14:14

is that you refuse to say @MissBarbary needs to provide evidence for their opinion but insist I must

No one thinks you need to provide evidence Ngo is right wing. We all agree on this.
"Grifter" is more questionable but since presumably he was paid money for that London article, I wouldn't argue it.
You barged in accusing LangClegInSpace of being unable to use Google when she was asking for evidence that he is a Nazi. That was the point under discussion and the point where evidence was requested.

You are now saying that you don't claim he is a Nazi. So what was all the aggressive rudeness even about? You think Ngo is a right wing grifter; that's a defensible claim and you are valid, now go away.

SunsetBeetch · 12/03/2021 14:15

@cinammonbuns

Oh don’t worry *@AdHominemNonSequitur I’ll save myself the reading. As you said about @MissBarbary* they was merely stating an opinion so did not need to provide evidence.

I will clarify. My opinion is that Andy Ngo is a right wing grifter. This may not be a fact, simply my opinion, right? Therefore I do not need to provide evidence. Glad we are clear.

But that's not what you said previously.

You just said "He's a right wing grifter". You did not qualify that with it being your opinion. So it reads as a statement of fact.

If you're now backtracking on that, ok fine I suppose. That's your opinion. And opinions are subjective.

Glad we cleared that up.

cinammonbuns · 12/03/2021 14:15

@AdHominemNonSequitur no I was saying hypocrisy applies to you.
Also I do not know how many times I must repeat myself until you understand. I was using @SunsetBeetch’s logic that because @MissBarbary was stating an opinion she did not need to provide any evidence. It really is like speaking to a brick wall.

AdHominemNonSequitur · 12/03/2021 14:18

That's an appeal to ridicule, another adhominem, a quoting out of context and probably another repetition also. Until you understand burden of proof though, it's going to be circular reasoning.
ding, ding, ding, ding

www.logicalfallacies.org/appeal-to-ridicule.html
www.logicalfallacies.org/ad-hominem.html
www.logicalfallacies.org/fallacy-of-quoting-out-of-context.html
www.logicalfallacies.org/circular-reasoning.html

cinammonbuns · 12/03/2021 14:18

@SunsetBeetch oh I am sorry, from now on I will make sure I clarify that everything I say is actually my opinion those who may understand.
Instead of saying ‘Cow’s milk is gross.’ I will be sure to say: ‘In my opinion cow’s milk is gross.’ Just for those who may otherwise misunderstand.

Livinginthecity · 12/03/2021 14:18

Interesting thread. A revealing insight into the tortuous relationship of the left with the religion of Islam. A quote from the literature Andy Ngo was given about women wearing a hijab to avoid molestation is described as racist. We are currently having a national discussion about the right of women to walk in London at night without being molested or raped after the tragic murder of a young woman. I think I might buy a hijab or preferably not go out at all without a male companion.

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