Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What do you think of Andy Ngo?

316 replies

ThroughTheBarsOfARhyme · 10/03/2021 21:12

This is a bit of a tenuous link to feminism, it’s probably more about free speech, but I saw that a member of Mumford & Sons was criticised for praising his book (about antifa) and that his book had previously been banned from Amazon. It seems a bit like TRA tactics and a similar response to Abigail Shrier’s book. I’ve just bought his book to read but I was interested in other’s opinions of him and/or the book. Is he speaking the truth and people are trying to suppress it (similar with feminists) or is he exaggerating and not someone to praise?
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/mumford-sons-winston-marshall-taking-time-to-examine-blindspots-after-praising-andy-ngos-unmasked-book-12241592

I appreciate this really isn’t feminism so I will ask for it to be moved if people think it should be.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
cinammonbuns · 12/03/2021 11:50

@nauticant if you have trouble reading this thread, unfortunately there is nothing I can do for you.

nauticant · 12/03/2021 11:51

Yes, I know you can slur but don't have much beyond that. It is a shame.

cinammonbuns · 12/03/2021 11:53

@nauticant Could you point me to any slurs I have used on this thread? Thank you.

cinammonbuns · 12/03/2021 11:55

It seems you have no argument other than ‘How dare you accuse me of being racist!’. I’m sorry but I deeply question the intelligence of somebody who can take this right wing grifter seriously. And I have said I would never align myself with this type of ‘feminism’. You can do whatever you want. It is a free country.

nauticant · 12/03/2021 11:56

You wrote that people having an interest in the contested area of the gender identity ideology is "a manifestation of being aligned with the alt-right". If you are defining that as not being a slur, that's up to you.

cinammonbuns · 12/03/2021 12:00

@nauticant I think you also need to have a Google and find out the definition of a slur. The alt right is the name of a far right, white nationalist political group. It is a description of a political group, not a slur.

And I also never said an interest with gender identity was associated with the right, I said MN obsession with trans was.

It seems you also have trouble with reading comprehension.

nauticant · 12/03/2021 12:01

OK.

jj1968 · 12/03/2021 12:02

The Nazi party doesn't exist any more. American wannabees are not Nazis, and most of them look like their applications to join would have been refused.

There are plenty amongst the US far right, and their European counterparts, whose political ideology is based on a racialised form of fascism and who believe in a Jewish conspiracy to control the world and as such Jewish people should be eliminated. At the more extreme end these groups will use the regalia and symbols of the Nazi Party, including idolising or acting as apologists for Hitler. It's not unreasonable to call these groups Nazis, if you want to add neo fair enough but it doesn't seem to me to be worth nitpicking about. They are almost always present at far right events and less extreme far right groups in the US have been happy to march and fight alongside them, as theyoften share some if not all of the same ideals.

The far right are not all the same, but what unites them is first a desire to destroy any gains working class people have made, or ever could make, such as dismantling public services, employment protection, LGBT and women's rights and preventing trade union or organised left wing activity. There's a reason they came for the communists first, and they are still at it - far right movements when they take hold always begin violently attacking the left.

What these groups also share is a belief in natural hierarchies, whether based on race, culture, sex, or sexuality and a desire to return to a society based on those hierarchies often based on idealised and mythical notions of some noble past that has been destroyed by feminists, immigrants and gays. Some will proudly proclaim themselves anti-racist like Tommy Robinson whilst whipping up mobs to march into Muslim areas, some have a religious perspective, some favour white supremacy, mass deportations and racial segregation. Some are media savvy and recognise the value of not showing your true face, or only attacking certain minority groups whilst pretending to defend the others whilst some insist on being open and drape themselves in Nazi regalia. Some will deliberately attempt entryism to stir up racial tensions, when the BNP were at their peek some were openly attempting to court Muslim groups with anti-Semitic, anti-Israel propanganda whilst simultaneously courting Zionist (in the true sense of the word) groups with anti-Muslim propaganda. And some, particularly in the UK, are just drunk racists who like a fight and are attracted to the movement for that reason alone.

Most importantly what these groups share, and the way they can be recognised as far right as opposed to the more extreme conservatives and Tories, is a commitment to using violence to pursue their ideals - see the storming of the Capitol for details or the countless and sometimes murderous attacks on people of colour, minority owned businesses and left wingers carried out by far right forces across the globe. So whilst within them they may be different factions and even disagreement it is not unreasonable when they gather in armed mobs on the streets to treat them as a monolithic and violent block, because in that moment that is how they behave. I don't really care whether people describe those mobs as Nazis, Fascists, far right or alt-right, it strikes me the problem is what to do about them not what to call them. Because they are dangerous, and if they are able to take the streets unopposed it will not end there as history sadly shows.

Livinginthecity · 12/03/2021 12:14

Most of Antifa appear to be white middle class college kids who are avin a larf from what I've seen of what he posts on his Twitter feed.

AdHominemNonSequitur · 12/03/2021 12:17

Blah, blah, blah. Someone likes the sound of their own voice

MissBarbary · 12/03/2021 12:18

I'm always amazed that people throwing out accusations of Nazi seem to have no knowledge of Stalinism ad Maoism.

The apology given by Winston Marshall was a perfect example of the Stalinist and Maoist approach to correcting wrong thinking.

nauticant · 12/03/2021 12:23

This business of MN being on the alt-right and the screeds of mind-numbing browbeating deliberately miss that the shift in FWR over the past few years has been a growing dislike of authoritarianism. That's it.

It's interesting to see how some people absolutely loathe this growing awareness.

SunsetBeetch · 12/03/2021 12:26

[quote Lisz]I mean, shit.. sometimes, you wonder, you really do.

'Anti-fascists linked to zero murders in the US in 25 years'
:
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa[/quote]
Well that's bollocks.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_of_Aaron_Danielson_and_Michael_Reinoehl

Regardless of how many people they've killed, they are violent thugs who have attacked and injured many people and vandalised and set fire to buildings and cars.

Excusing their behaviour because you think they're the good guys,and because white supremacists or whatever you want to call them have done worse, is abhorrent imo.

What about the time they viciously attacked a black man who was attending a free speech rally and knocked his teeth out? What did he do to 'deserve' that? Is he nazi white supremicist?

rmx.news/article/article/black-trump-supporter-teeth-knocked-out-by-antifa-and-blm-members-at-free-speech-rally-twitter-bans-his-account

jj1968 · 12/03/2021 12:27

@PotholeParadies

I have seen video evidence of a small journalist being set on by a baying mob, I can actually see that mixture setting into strands and Sky News say it was cement.

You could tell me that the video was taken on an escaped Nazi member's camcorder, it still wouldn't make that scene less terrifying.

I watched that and I was scared for him. Rooting for him to get out of there and be allowed to proceed out of shot.

There is no evidence beyond alt-right claims, initially repeated by some conservative outlets, that it was anything other than a milkshake and it's a pretty ridiculous claim given that they were quite happy to phsycially attack him in plain sight.

Not that long ago there was a vicious and completely unprovoked attack on RMT members drinking outside a pub following a far right protest. It is almost certain this was targetted as the victims included the Assistant general Secretary of the RMT, as union despised by fascists for being perceived as the most militant. At least one woman was also injured. The reason this didn't start a global conversation on far right violence in the way the milkshake did is partly because most media outlets lean to the right and their reporting reflects that but also because it is entirely commonplace - there have been countless left wing journalists attacked at such events, whilst left wing bookshops even have to be constantly vigilant due to bombs threats, arson attacks or assaults on staff from the far right.

Andy Ngo is a racist liar, there is no other explanation for this comments on Muslims in London. He deliberately edits his footage and presents information in a way to distort what happened and minimise far right violence. He has doxed left wing journalists sometimes placing their lives at risk given the current state of play in the US. He also clearly has a close relationships that go beyond objective journalism with some far right groups who are openly violent. He is of them, not a Nazi in the traditional sense of the word perhaps, but a man who is fully committed to acting as a propagandist for their movement and the violence it pursues. And if you turn up on the streets with a mob of heavily armed racists who are ready and eager to commit violence and you end up getting hurt then frankly tough shit.

ThatLibraryMiss · 12/03/2021 12:31

I think he's the guy who wrote bollocks about Islamic England, and that poisons the well for me. www.wsj.com/articles/a-visit-to-islamic-england-1535581583

londonist.com/london/opinion/the-wall-street-journal-spouts-nonsense-about-islamic-london-in-this-article

nauticant · 12/03/2021 12:37

For anyone who wants to avoid the eye-strain and suffering death-by-walls-of-text, you could read Andy Ngo's words about Muslims in the UK here:

www.wsj.com/articles/a-visit-to-islamic-england-1535581583

Not to my taste at all but I'm willing to read it and use it to form my opinions.

PotholeParadies · 12/03/2021 12:37

Sooooo... the guy might have said something a bit bigoted once, and now he isn't entitled to human rights any more. Also, something horrible happened to someone else, so there. I'm afraid I didn't sign up to race to the bottom.

This kind of thing seems to play well with Amnesty (see Alexei Navalny) but I am afraid I have moral principles.

nauticant · 12/03/2021 12:37

Great X-post.

jj1968 · 12/03/2021 12:46

Sooooo... the guy might have said something a bit bigoted once, and now he isn't entitled to human rights any more.

A bit bigoted lol. If you turn up with an armed racist mob looking for a fight don't go crying when you get one

cinammonbuns · 12/03/2021 12:47

‘A bit bigoted’. I’m guessing you aren’t Muslim.

And he has said many more bigoted things but you all seem adverse to using Google and I’m not going to waste my time doing that for you.

NecessaryScene1 · 12/03/2021 12:47

Excusing their behaviour because you think they're the good guys,and because white supremacists or whatever you want to call them have done worse, is abhorrent imo.

Exactly. We're busy opposing violent extremists on both sides, but people like jj1968 don't care about the violence, they care about the claimed motivations.

If the (alleged) motivation is bad, then it's bad, even if not violent - hence jj1968 is anti-Ngo. It the (alleged) motivation is good, then it's good even if violent - hence jj1968 is pro-Antifa. But jj1968 has no principles on violence at all. The ends justify the means.

And hence jj1968 promotes right-wing violence - by making excuses for the left-wing violence he legitimates violence as a method thus encouraging it in the right.

jj1968 is a dangerous extremist and a threat to democracy. And I want jj1968 to post more so everyone sees exactly what we're opposing here.

cinammonbuns · 12/03/2021 12:50

@PotholeParadies and it wasn’t ‘might’, he did say it unless you are not able to comprehend that he was literally the one who wrote the article?

Anyway, I’m not going to waste my time trying to talk to you anymore. It’s like trying to speak to a brick wall, no signs of intelligence at all and not being able to comprehend that the credibility of somebody who writes things such as those is irrevocably damaged. But he agrees with your agenda so you choose to ignore it. What great intersectional ‘feminism’.

nauticant · 12/03/2021 12:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Clymene · 12/03/2021 12:53

I honestly thought @jj1968 after you accused a Jewish woman of anti-Semitism the other day, you might reflect a bit about your propensity to fling around accusations of nazism. I see my hopes were I'll-founded

cinammonbuns · 12/03/2021 12:54

@nauticant if somebody on one side saying things you don’t agree with pushes you to the other extreme. Then you are clearly someone without much intelligence or stable opinions and can easily be pushed into anything. It’s not anybody else’s fault that someone has poor critical thinking skills and can’t form rational opinions without being pushed to an extreme.

@NecessaryScene1 and what a blindingly stupid statement. I could just as easily label you a volent white supremacist but I have no evidence of that as you have no evidence of @jj1968 being an extremist.

People wonder why the younger generation do not ascribe to the views shared on here. This thread is the perfect example of why.