What do you think of Andy Ngo?

[ThroughTheBarsOfARhyme]

This is a bit of a tenuous link to feminism, it’s probably more about free speech, but I saw that a member of Mumford & Sons was criticised for praising his book (about antifa) and that his book had previously been banned from Amazon. It seems a bit like TRA tactics and a similar response to Abigail Shrier’s book. I’ve just bought his book to read but I was interested in other’s opinions of him and/or the book. Is he speaking the truth and people are trying to suppress it (similar with feminists) or is he exaggerating and not someone to praise?
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/mumford-sons-winston-marshall-taking-time-to-examine-blindspots-after-praising-andy-ngos-unmasked-book-12241592

I appreciate this really isn’t feminism so I will ask for it to be moved if people think it should be.

They generally go by names such as "Momentum" or "antifa" or the like, and they love the notion of an ever present fascist threat, as it justifies many of their antisocial activities.

That's the strategy right there, as played out by Trump, Ngo and countless alt-right and conservative media outlets. The people in in Klan outfits or draped in neo-nazi flags at far right protests don't exist, antifa are the real fascists. The Breivik and El Paso massacres didn't happen. Antifa are the real terrorists. The Heritage Foundation aren't anti-women, they are pro-business. Antifa are the real misogynists. The gang of armed thugs heading to confront antifa supporters in a bar were just going for a stroll, antifa are the ones who turn up looking for trouble. The storming of the Capitol didn't happen, antifa are the ones who want to destroy democracy. The murderers of Heather Heyer and Jo Cox were just bad apples, antifa are the ones intent on violence. Repeat over and over again until in some people at least it sticks. I see where you're coming from now.

And conveniently antifa can be anyone you don't like. People campaigning for sex workers, trans inclusive feminist groups, black lives matter protesters, local kids rioting, all antifa when it suits.

And conveniently antifa can be anyone you don't like.

A bit like "Nazis" when used in the overexcitable way certain posters on this thread seem to use it. Gender critical feminists, for instance.

People have repeatedly said that they condemn all violent behaviour, not just that of the right wing or the left wing.

UsedUpUsername

"Dr King’s legacy is being trampled by antifa and critical race theorists, sadly. And it seems you don’t give a fuck about that even though you link to his letter."

Exactly this. Dr King was all about people living together in harmony, whilst Antifa and CRT are all about division and anarchy.

jj1968

You keep referencing the US, which bears no comparison to the UK. Everything in the US is hyped up - gun crime, gangs, murder rate, military spending (which will not decrease under Biden's sitting), foreign wars. When I look at what is happening in the US, it is like some out of control video game.

It's just, fair is fair really.
Everyone knows that moderate left and right ideas are worth listening to and examining. Both valid.

So when people throw around stuff like alt right Nazi to people with boring old middle of the road opinions I know its them trying to justify their own zealotry. It means you're the good guy, and your cause is just.

The mainstream GC position has always been "Do what you like transpeople, 99% of the time; but that 1% where what our rights clash- we must talk"
When that gets framed as hateful and dangerous and must be shut down, you know you are not dealing with rational people who just want to rub along in peace.

And conveniently antifa can be anyone you don't like. People campaigning for sex workers, trans inclusive feminist groups, black lives matter protesters, local kids rioting, all antifa when it suits

This coming from someone who thinks right-of-center views are fascist 🙄

And what’s your obsession with the Heritage Foundation? They haven’t been relevant since the Bush years ...

And what’s your obsession with the Heritage Foundation? They haven’t been relevant since the Bush years ...

Hardly.

"Today it is clear that for all the chaos and churn of the current administration, Heritage has achieved a huge strategic victory. Those who worked on the project estimate that hundreds of the people the think tank put forward landed jobs, in just about every government agency. Heritage’s recommendations included some of the most prominent members of Trump’s cabinet: Scott Pruitt, Betsy DeVos (whose in-laws endowed Heritage’s Richard and Helen DeVos Center for Religion and Civil Society), Mick Mulvaney, Rick Perry, Jeff Sessions and many more. Dozens of Heritage employees and alumni also joined the Trump administration — at last count 66 of them, according to Heritage, with two more still awaiting Senate confirmation. It is a kind of critical mass that Heritage had been working toward for nearly a half-century."

www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/magazine/trump-government-heritage-foundation-think-tank.html

This coming from someone who thinks right-of-center views are fascist

You do know that people can read the thread and my posts within it don't you? I have never said anything of the sort, in fact I've said quite the opposite several times.

@jj1968

This coming from someone who thinks right-of-center views are fascist

You do know that people can read the thread and my posts within it don't you? I have never said anything of the sort, in fact I've said quite the opposite several times.

Yes, they’ll see your extreme opinions on typical conservative beliefs. I’m not even a conservative (although moving that way politically because the left is moving even further away). Oh and your strange fixation with Heritage Foundation. You are quite the conspiracy theorist.

I’m just tired of the demonisation of middle-of-the-road viewpoints.

The gang of armed thugs heading to confront antifa supporters in a bar were just going for a stroll, antifa are the ones who turn up looking for trouble.

You do understand that two things could both be correct here?

(1) A particular right-wing group turned up to attack antifa.

(2) Antifa often turn up to attack right-wing groups.

Both of those things are compatible yes?

Not only are they compatible, but it wouldn't even be a surprise.

If antifa attacks the right-wing, isn't it very likely that some right-wing groups will want to attack them back?

This is another thing about the use of political violence: when you use it, it could just encourage more violence in response.

(To be clear, I don't know if they were real antifa at that site or what the real details are.)

The storming of the Capitol didn't happen, antifa are the ones who want to destroy democracy.

Again, two things can both be true here.

(1) A right-wing protest turned violent, or was always planned by some to be violent.
(2) Antifa are anti-democratic.

There isn't any tension between those two things being correct.

typical conservative beliefs.

Could you elaborate on what you think typical conservative beliefs are please?

Also where you think "the centre" is.

@Hibari

typical conservative beliefs.

Could you elaborate on what you think typical conservative beliefs are please?

Also where you think "the centre" is.

That’s very broad, and very different between the UK and US. It’s not surprising that the UK more socially liberal than the US, as there are many Christians there.

Give me some key areas and I’ll answer to the best of my knowledge though. I grew up in America and most of my family are still there so have a reasonable grasp of conservative opinion, which is why I defend it even though I’m not totally onboard

That’s very broad, and very different between the UK and US. It’s not surprising that the UK more socially liberal than the US, as there are many Christians there.

This does not answer what you think those beliefs are. You're welcome to separate them if you'd like.

This is another thing about the use of political violence: when you use it, it could just encourage more violence in response.

This. And every terrorist thinks they are a freedom fighter, and that the end justifies the means.

Andy Ngo attacked again. He confirmed it on Twitter.